Unknown 1919 Identity and Service Certificates

[Paul O Donovan]

I am new to the forum and need help identifying two mystery seamen. I have been given two 'Identity and Service Certificates' from circa 1919 for these seamen that I am told are relatives. There are photos with numbers but no names on the cards. The information contained on each document is:
- Date of Birth day-month-year
- Place of Birth town-country
- Nationality
- Fathers Nationality
- Height Colour of Hair Eyes
- Tatoo and other distinguishing marks
- Photo (with number)
- Thumb Print (compulsory in the case of Asiatics, Africans and other coloured seamen

Opposite this page is information are repeated boxes for:
- Ship
- Engaged Discharged (These are dates - not a discharge number)
- Signature of Master or Official Stamp

The documents are faded and hard to read, particularly the ship names / dates / masters etc. Two ships names I can read are Lowlands and Mayflower of Liverpool. The dates of birth do not match any of my known close relatives so I am at a loss as to the identity of these individuals. The two photos have similarities and look like a father and born in 1857 and his son born 1878 working as seamen in 1919.

The identity numbers on the photographs are 328392 and 486295 respectively. Is there some way of identifying the names of these seamen from their identity numbers? I would appreciate any information or advice members of the forum have to offer. Thank you.

[Doc Vernon]

I dont know if this is correct or not, as the Numbers you give have not got an R before them, but what comes up in the Archives with the R in front are

Reference:	BT 372/824/113
Description:	R328392 COYNE A W 24/07/1925 TOWARD ARGYLLSHIRE
Date:	1913-1972
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Former reference in its original department:	R328392

The second one does not show any Seamans Record just that of an Army Chap.

But as i said there is no R included on your Numbers, so could well be other names before the R was introduced.
Cheers

Unless they are ID Numbers? But dont look like it???
Very hard without a name or two

[Ivan Cloherty]

The 'R' prefix was introduced circa 1925 as far as I can ascertain.

[Paul O Donovan]

I have scanned and attached copies of the identity and service certificates. As you can see the dates are circa 1919 and the identity numbers are on the photographs.

O'Donovan 1857 - Colour Mag.jpg

O'Donovan 1878 - Colour Mag.jpg

[Keith at Tregenna]

Both Cork, Ireland. Will take a look ASAP.

Keith.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Seems to be O'Donovan 1857

K.

[Paul O Donovan]

Hi Marian, I don't have their names. I have been told by an aunt that they are Edward Donovan and his son Daniel Donovan (both without the "O"). I have my doubts as the DOBs do not match the records that I have for both individuals. I am hoping we can get names from the identity numbers or crew lists for the listed voyages, if they exist. Discharge numbers seem to be important in tracking people and there are none on the certificates.

[Ivan Cloherty]

. Discharge numbers seem to be important in tracking people and there are none on the certificates.

The Discharge Book numbers will be those on their photographs in the identity cards, they were issued prior 1925 so will have no 'R' prefix. Normally your identity card was issued after your Discharge Book and the same number was used to avoid confusion.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Hi Marian, I don't have their names. I have been told by an aunt that they are Edward Donovan and his son Daniel Donovan (both without the "O"). I have my doubts as the DOBs do not match the records that I have for both individuals. I am hoping we can get names from the identity numbers or crew lists for the listed voyages, if they exist. Discharge numbers seem to be important in tracking people and there are none on the certificates.

To save time going through and duplicating, can you give an idea of where you have looked already.

Keith.

[Paul O Donovan]

I have done searches with the surname and dates of birth without success. I searched for the Mayflower but there were tens of ships with this name. In short, I haven't got very far and I'm unfamiliar with the various archives / records. Identifying the individuals is my primary goal. I have no family photographs from this time period. After that, learning about their activities would be a bonus.