Interesting thread ...SS Widestone crew help required

[Rick Green]

Hi I’m new to this site so thankyou for having me here!
I hope some one can help me as I think this should be ver interesting to you.

Im desperately trying to find information on a crew member A Rutherford of SS widestone from the year 1940
This has come about as my hobby is restoring antique clocks and I recently bought a beautiful Art Deco clock with a very interesting inscription plaque on it with merchant naval interest!
Please see the photos especially the one describing A Rutherford’ s gallant efforts on the 12th Jan 1940 in saving the life of the chief engineer of SS Widestone... What an accolade!

I have done some research and believe the chief engineers name was Conrad Landreth
I know wide stone was a merchant naval vessel and was sank by a German u boat torpedo attack on the 17th November 1942 tragically killing all crew in board including the chief engineer.

I’m struggling to find information on A Rutherford, what was his first name and his life story , and what happened on SS Widestone on the 12th jan 1940 which resulted in mr Rutherford saving his friends life.
This Was indeed a real act of courage im sure , whoever this man was he should be remembered.
i absolutely love this clock although im a little said it has ended up in my hands as this should be a family heirloom that has been handed down.
would have been an expensive clock in the 1940's costing a months wages of a merchant naval seamen!

Please examine the photos attached .
I hope you find this one interesting .
I’m excited to learn more and this is of particular interest as im a keen sailor myself having bought a yacht recently.
Look forward to hearing from you guys
Happy Christmas
Rick

[j.sabourn]

Rick, clocks seem to be a thing with seamen , maybe it’s because that time is a navigational figure in every navigators life. I am sure the family of the recipient would be proud to be the owners of such .without wanting to detract from your find myself and 5 others were presented with a caricature of a bronze ships wheelhouse clock with a suitable bronze plate with the appropriate wording and presented to the 6 of us at a ceremony in 1991, I am very proud of mine and no doubt the others are as well. Mine sits on the wall of my study to remind me of years gone by. I certainly hope others can help you to find the original owners family. Best regards and the best of luck. John Sabourn

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hello Rick, first I'm not very good at this and you may have this information

s.s. Widestone built in Canada in 1920, sunk by U-184 on 17.11.42, as far as I can find out U-184 was sunk on 21.11.42, looking on U'boat.net crew list there is no mention of Mr Rutherford being on board at the time of sinking.

Others on site are experts on this and no doubt volunteer their time to help. Another place to help is the Salvation Army, normally for relatives only, but if you tell them why you want to trace someone I'm sure they'll be christian enough to help.

Good luck in your endeavours and welcome aboard

[Captain Kong]

The Salvatyion Army is the best for searching for people.
They found a South African lad, who saved my life, 48 years before, he was now living in Scotland and we were introduced on BBC TV on the Esther Rantzen Show, a fantastic meeting.,
They only search for family, but after telling them my story they made an exception.
my Grandmother`s husband did a runner and disappeared, in 1920, leaving her with 5 very young daughters on Walney Island, Barrow in Furness,.
they found him 18 years later under a different name and married to another woman in Auckland , New Zealand,.
Brian

[Doc Vernon]

As told by Ivan , his name is not on the list however Landreth is.
Will look into tis later and get back.
Cheers

Crewlist from Widestone (British steam merchant) - Ships hit by German U-boats during WWII - uboat.net

The following Link may hold info on Incident , as it hold Crew and Logs for that Ship in 1940

141489; 141866; 141870 | The National Archives

Reference:	BT 381/696
Description:	141489; 141866; 141870
Date:	1940 Jan 01 - 1940 Dec 31
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:	Public Record(s)

As we dont know his actual age may be difficult but that ship was launched as Canadian Rancher in 1920 just of interest !
Also at the Archives there are so many Rutherford names with initial A that without knowing more on him will make it really hard!

[Ivan Cloherty]

As told by Ivan , his name is not on the list however Landreth is.
Will look into tis later and get back.
Cheers

Crewlist from Widestone (British steam merchant) - Ships hit by German U-boats during WWII - uboat.net

Whoops I completely forgot to look for Landreth, old age strikes again

[Doc Vernon]

Rutherford is also not shown on the CWGC Panel at Tower Hill ??

STORM AND COMPAN (rootsweb.com)


STORM AND COMPANY (rootsweb.com)


freepages.rootsweb.com/~stormrhb/genealogy/widestonecrew.htm


So looks like he must have Survived but it says all Crew were lost ??
Weird!!

If our Billy reads this he may be able to shed some light on it!??


Cardiff Boys | Message Board: Her Name WasTregenna (proboards.com)

[Doc Vernon]

I have sent following request to the Archives, so will see if they can assist here
Cheers

Summary of your enquiry

• Full name: Vernon MacDonald
• Email: vamacdonald@---------------
• Country: Australia
• Enquiry: Dear Sir/Madam
  I hope that you may be able to assist me. As i know that it costs t make a request my plight is that all i want to know at this time if possible for free ,is can you possibly tell me if a Person was on a Crew List of a Ship.
  The Link for the Crew listing is
  Reference: BT 381/696
  Description:
  141489; 141866; 141870
  
  Date: 1940 Jan 01 - 1940 Dec 31
  Held by: The National Archives, Kew
  Legal status: Public Record(s)
  Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
  
  The Ship in question is Number 141489 ss Widestone , i ask this as in other records i can find with the Crew of that date, does not show his name ( A . Rutherford ) but he was responsible for saving the life of the Chief Engineer on that Ship?? Unfortunately i dont have his Place or DOB which does make it rather hard!
  Even on the Tower Hill Remembrance Panel his name is not listed?
  Thank you for any help you may be able to shed on this person
  My appreciation beforehand
  Sincerely
  Vernon
  
  https://www.uboat.net/allies/merchan.../ship2436.html

[Alan Masterman]

Hi I’m new to this site so thankyou for having me here!
I hope some one can help me as I think this should be ver interesting to you.


Look forward to hearing from you guys
Happy Christmas
Rick

Hi Rick,

I'm afraid I can't help with your specific enquiry, but my father served on the Widestone for a brief period at the beginning of the war, before transferring to MS Diloma, and heard of her sinking through the grapevine. Through friends of friends he was able to contact a witness of the sinking, and gain some account of it. If his recall be accurate, there may be some question as to whether all of the crew really perished in the sinking, because my father was told that a German ship was seen to come alongside before Widestone disappeared under the water, presumably to look for survivors.

The story gains point because one of the crew apparently boasted to my father that he would never die by drowning, because he was born with a caul over his face. I don't really know what a caul is, but apparently this is a superstition in some parts of the UK. After the sinking, the man's mother went to a medium to find out what had really happened to her son. According to my father's account, the medium told her, 'Your son is alive in a hospital in Europe, but he can't speak, so he can't tell anyone his name, or where he came from'.

Like all of us, my father had a tendency to refine and polish his stories with every retelling! But I don't think he would have misrepresented the basic facts. Anyway, I hope this might be of general interest.

The clock is precious. Treasure it. And stay safe - wear a mask - don't kiss strangers!

[I have made a couple of edits since the original posting; the first was written rather quickly and carelessly]

[Ivan Cloherty]

Rick, every British seaman pre-war and post-war had a green identity card with photo and fingerprints and all fingerprints were lodged with the central register for seamen in Cardiff, this was in the event that if a body was found with no papers then if it was known to be from a British vessel then the deceased fingerprints could be taken and sent to Cardiff. The same would be true of people ending up in hos[ital with loss of memory. Of course no system is infallible, just added out of interest. A lot of us old timers still have that green identity card with our fingerprints, but some young whippersnapper has put his photo in there. The green ones were replaced by red ones sometimes in the sixties but don't know if the red ones had fingerprints in them.