Jan Ming Tan, Chief Steward, Liverpool, 1958

[Dougclark]

Hi

First time poster so I hope I’m posting in the right place.

I’m looking for information regarding my wife’s Chinese grandad who served during WW2 and beyond. Ultimately we’re trying to work back and find any of his Chinese family.

What we know is that he lied about his name and age to join the navy. His ‘navy’ name is Jan Ming Tan and we believe he was born 1912.

I’ve since found a post in the London Gazette announcing UK Naturalisations in 1958 and it lists him as living in Liverpool and employed as a Chief Steward within the Merchant Navy.

I’ve also found his navy discharge document via the national archives, although currently I can’t request a copy due to COVID. Link is https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C8451689 To be honest, I’m not sure what information this will contain.

I wondered if anyone could advise further on what additional information I can search for. It would be great to try understand what boats he may have served on, and how he might have worked up to becoming a Chief Steward. What roles his ships might have played in the war etc, and what his post war career might have entailed.

We have a picture of his dated between 1945-1948 sat in his cabin which looks quite elegant - unfortunately I cannot seem to attach a copy of the picture here.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Mike Hall]

Registration number is shown as R 656241.

[Ivan Cloherty]

That Discharge Book No would have been issued circa 1954

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Doug
That Link is his Seamans Pouch and will only hold basic info, you will need his CRS10 which will contain his full Service Records.
This will also be available at the NA Kew.
Cheers

Tallett C S to Tarney J | The National Archives

Reference:	BT 382/2960
Description:	Tallett C S to Tarney J
Date:	1941 Jan 01 - 1972 Dec 31
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Former reference in its original department:	938

[Doc Vernon]

May not be of help, but his Record of Naturalisation is also available (When Archives Reopens) by applying for the FOI Request as Record is closed till 2059

Reference:	HO 405/55548
Description:	TAN, J M Year of birth 1912
Date:	1953 Jan 01 - 1958 Dec 31
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Former reference in its original department:	T 17455
Legal status:	Public Record(s)
Closure status:	Closed Or Retained Document, Open Description

[Dougclark]

Hello Doug
That Link is his Seamans Pouch and will only hold basic info, you will need his CRS10 which will contain his full Service Records.
This will also be available at the NA Kew.
Cheers

Tallett C S to Tarney J | The National Archives

Reference:	BT 382/2960
Description:	Tallett C S to Tarney J
Date:	1941 Jan 01 - 1972 Dec 31
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Former reference in its original department:	938

Thank you Doc Vernon. Certainly I would prefer his full service records where possible so I shall definitely seek out his CRS10. Hopefully the National Archives reopens soon and I can request the information to be sent to me.

- - - Updated - - -

May not be of help, but his Record of Naturalisation is also available (When Archives Reopens) by applying for the FOI Request as Record is closed till 2059

Reference:	HO 405/55548
Description:	TAN, J M Year of birth 1912
Date:	1953 Jan 01 - 1958 Dec 31
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Former reference in its original department:	T 17455
Legal status:	Public Record(s)
Closure status:	Closed Or Retained Document, Open Description

Thank you. Do you know what information might be contained within Naturalisation doc?

- - - Updated - - -

Registration number is shown as R 656241.

Apologies but I need educated, registration number for what?

[Ivan Cloherty]

Apologies but I need educated, registration number for what?

Doug, each British seamen upon joining the British Merchant Navy is issued with a 'Record' Book, (known by seafarers as their 'Discharge Book') This book has a number mine as you see is R611450, this number stays with you for life, no matter how many ships you serve on, or how many books you may lose through one reason or another, sinking, carelessness, etc. It records the name of the ship, the port of registry, the Gross and net tonnage and in some cases the BHP (or NHP)of the engine, alongside the name it shows the date when you joined that vessel and at what port, your rank or rating on board, the date you left the vessel and at which port, Details of your conduct and ability,( normally VG/VG unless you were a really bad boy) the name of the Master, Inside the front cover were your photo, NHI No, personal details, height, weight, colour of eyes, distinquishing marks (such as a mole etc and where place, so they could identify your corpse!) tattoos (they would need 3 pages for that these days). In the old days 40's /60's it could be used in lieu of a passport when joining/leaving a ship abroad (not many of us had passports in those days, got my first to go on honeymoon!) It also lists lots of other information, such as certificates etc

A lot of us still have our discharge books 60/70 years later, reminds us that we were not always little old men, and the ships names in there bring back so many memories

[Dougclark]

Hi Doug, Is your Ancestry sub world wide or UK only? Two trips and a few personal details. Same ship:

Name: Jan Ming Tan
Arrival Date: 19 Sep 1941
Birth Date: abt 1912
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Chinese
Port of Departure: Grangemouth, Scotland
Port of Arrival: New York, New York, USA
Ship Name: Ceronia

Name: Jan Ming Tan
Arrival Date: 29 Jul 1941
Birth Date: abt 1912
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Place of Origin: hyian? [spelling] ie, HYLAM RACE Chinese Nationality
Port of Departure: Loch Ewe and Glasgow and Grangemouth, Scotland
Port of Arrival: New York, New York, USA
Ship Name: Ceronia

6ft tall, scar on right temple 150lbs, Seaman for 8 yrs at this point.
He appears to be working the US route, still have more pages to look through and also the Citizenship Records to see if I can locate his birth name, possibly a trip to the British Embassy for you.

Wow, Marian, this is fantastic. Thank you so much for finding and sharing this information. I have a ‘premium’ Ancestry membership but that doesn’t allow me access to everything. I’m now wondering at what point did Jan Ming meet his wife May and if it might have been possible she was a passenger at some point somewhere. May married and gave birth to their first child in 1943.

On a side note, would anyone have a picture of what this ship might have looked like? I’ve tried to Google it and wonder if this might be it; https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/233.html

[Dougclark]

Hi Doug, Sorry no mention of Jan in the Citizenship Records available on Ancestry World wide that I could see. I checked the American records too just in case as don't know what he was doing prior to arriving in UK aged 21yrs.

Hi Marian. One additional note, we believe he may also have gone by another name, Toon Jing Fong (might not be entirely accurate or correct spelling). Were not sure if this is his real name or a name he used to join the navy. Not sure if this helps or if there’s any way to link this to Jan Ming Tan.

[Doc Vernon]

There is a Teun Man Fong Seaman registered , but Birth 1892 also in China, wonder if it could possibly be a Relative (Father Perhaps) Chief Steward. On the Ship Kohistan Strick Line Great Britain. ??
Cheers