Interesting thread ...SS Widestone crew help required

[Doc Vernon]

Rick If you read this i am still waiting reply from the NA on the Email i sent regarding your query
So will posy when i get reply
Cheers

[Doc Vernon]

Talk of the Devil!
Just received this from the NA. So looks like you will have to go it alone now and fork out some dosh! LOL

Hope that you will find out eventually what you want.
Cheers


Dear Mr MacDonald,
Thank you for contacting The National Archives of the United Kingdom.
Please first bear in mind that we are currently closed to the public due to Tier 4 restrictions and that many of our services, including our paid search service, are suspended until further notice.
BT 381/696 has not been digitised which means that the only way to confirm whether or not A . Rutherford appears on the crew list will be consult the original document. I’m afraid we are unable to do this research for free.
As you are in Australia, you may need to consider paying someone to do this research for you once our reading rooms re-open. You can use one of the independent researchers listed on our website, many of whom offer more competitive rates than ours. These researchers are not employees of The National Archives and any arrangements made are a private matter between you and the researcher.
Alternatively you can use our paid search service once it resumes. We offer a paid search service because the limitations on our resources and the time-consuming nature of consulting documents here means we are unable to offer research for free. Our rates are £116.88 (inc. VAT) per hour of research. The minimum charge is £29.22 which covers 15 minutes of research but it's rare for a paid search to be so quick. The prices we charge are set out by the Fees Regulations under the Public Records Act (1958) and are based on recovering the costs of providing the service.
Our own paid search service, details of which are on our paid search service page, requires that you complete our paid search request form before our paid search team can quote you a price for a search. Please note that we can only search for specific items of information in specific kinds of records, not ‘any information available’ on a given subject. Our research guides will help you to identify which record series will be relevant to your search or you can ask for our advice in the enquiry form.
There may be other records for A Rutherford so I also suggest you consult our guide to merchant seamen serving since 1918.
Our guides provide advice on the records we hold and how you can search for them in our catalogue and, in some instances, in the catalogues of our commercial partners. You can search our catalogue using keywords and dates to see what is held here and at over 2,500 other archives across the UK. For advice on searching effectively, read our catalogue help pages or our blogs on using the catalogue.
Your catalogue search results will provide you with short descriptions of the records and details of where they are held (keep an eye on the ‘Held by’ line for each search result). If the record is held at The National Archives the full description (which you arrive at by clicking on its catalogue title) will indicate your ordering and viewing options. If there is a digitised version of the record available, in some instances you can download a copy direct from our catalogue but in others you will be directed to the website of one of our commercial partners (and there may be a subscription cost to download the record from their site). Many of our records are not available online and for these you can order paper or digital copies to be sent to you (you should register your details with us before you request copies). However, if the record is held at another archive you will need to contact that archive directly to find out how you can see their records.
The limitations on our resources mean we are unable to offer free research but I hope the above advice allows you to advance with your research.
I hope this is helpful.
Yours sincerely,
Sarah Abbott
Remote Enquiries Duty Officer
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

[Ivan Cloherty]

Rick,

I have further information for you from my friend Hugh Maclean, known to many on this site for his ability to delve deep and locate information:-

Andrew I Rutherford aged 42 a coal trimmer of Bywell Terrace, Primrose, Jarrow, rescued Chief Engineer Burns aged 70 when he fell into the Tyne between the ship (s.s. Widestone) and the jetty at Hebburn whilst attempting to board the ship on 13th January 1940.

You will note that the C/E was not Conrad Landreth at the time, as he lost his life in the sinking of vessel in 1942. You will note that the life saving incident happened in 1940 and not 1942. It is not sure that Rutherford was a MN coal trimmer or a shore trimmer at the time of the incident, but there is evidence of him being in the Home Guard in May 1940 so it is unlikely he was a MN trimmer, so would not be found on any crew list.

If you wish to contact Hugh direct, as he is willing to help, then please send me a private email, by clicking on my name at the head of this message and I will let you have his email

Regards Ivan

May I add that many of us who also sailed at colliers at some time in our careers are lucky to be here, as the coal Staithes on the Tyne, and elsewhere, were a bluddy nightmare, especially in winter with a rickety unfixed wooden ladder, from an icy quay to a surging deck wasn't exactly 'elf n safti'

[Doc Vernon]

Yes Ivan Hugh is indeed a good Man for these kind of things, and its a pity that he chose to leave here ,he can at anytime though Log in as his Registration still stands!
Win some Loose some, but he is a great Loss!!
Cheers

[Robin Younghusband]

Look on Uboat.net - They have reports on sinking of ships in WW2, down to their crew lists and what happened.

[Rick Green]

Thanks Ivor ,
That’s pretty much where I’m up to from my research
I’ve found info on the site you Uboat mentioned site
Happy new year
Stay safe
Rick

[Rick Green]

Wow thanks for that.
This is a mystery indeed and your information from your dads account are very interesting
Bless you dad,
He sounds like a real character .
I too love telling stories and I think we all hone them some what !
Happy new year to you
Regards rick

[Rick Green]

Bingo !!thank you all so much that’s awesome and explains a lot with him not being crew .
I’m very excited to learn all this and will explore further !!

Thanks Ivan
Kind regards rick

[Laurie Ridyard]

Hi I’m new to this site so thankyou for having me here!
I hope some one can help me as I think this should be ver interesting to you.

Im desperately trying to find information on a crew member A Rutherford of SS widestone from the year 1940
This has come about as my hobby is restoring antique clocks and I recently bought a beautiful Art Deco clock with a very interesting inscription plaque on it with merchant naval interest!
Please see the photos especially the one describing A Rutherford’ s gallant efforts on the 12th Jan 1940 in saving the life of the chief engineer of SS Widestone... What an accolade!

I have done some research and believe the chief engineers name was Conrad Landreth
I know wide stone was a merchant naval vessel and was sank by a German u boat torpedo attack on the 17th November 1942 tragically killing all crew in board including the chief engineer.

I’m struggling to find information on A Rutherford, what was his first name and his life story , and what happened on SS Widestone on the 12th jan 1940 which resulted in mr Rutherford saving his friends life.
This Was indeed a real act of courage im sure , whoever this man was he should be remembered.
i absolutely love this clock although im a little said it has ended up in my hands as this should be a family heirloom that has been handed down.
would have been an expensive clock in the 1940's costing a months wages of a merchant naval seamen!

Please examine the photos attached .
I hope you find this one interesting .
I’m excited to learn more and this is of particular interest as im a keen sailor myself having bought a yacht recently.
Look forward to hearing from you guys
Happy Christmas
Rick

Hi !

SS " Widestone " is listed as sunk on Uboat.net site see https://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/search.php.

It list all the crew as having perished including the C/E Conrad Landreth.

A. Rutherford is not listed as a crew member.

Try other site such as https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/

Uboat.net does not have a photo of the SS " Widestone " and I am sure they would welcome yours.

SS " Stonegate " was owned by Turnbull Scott & Co., which originated in Whitby, before moving to London. They may well have favoured crews from the Whitby area. Check their site..... Turnbull, Scott & Co, London Shipping Company

Try doing a search for Whitby and Whitby Museum. They have records of Whitby seamen. I know , because I sailed with a C/O whose Discharge Book etc. is there.


ATB

Laurie Ridyard.



.

- - - Updated - - -

Rather oddly the Turnbull Scott site lists two " Stonegate " s; neither is registered as sunk bu a UBoat.

ATB


Laurie.

[Kathryn Atkin]

Newcastle Chronicle 20 April 1940 p6

AWARDS TO TYNE RESCUERS
The Bronze Medal of the Ryal Humane Society has been awarded to Andrew I. Rutherford (42), a coal trimmer, of Bywell Terrace. Primrose. Jarrow. He rescued Chief Engineer Burns, of the Widestone, aged 70, who fell into the Tyne between the ship and the jetty at Hebburn while attempting board the ship on January 13, 1940.
20 April 1940 - Newcastle Chronicle - Newcastle.

From FindMyPast newspapers online.

Kath.