Uniform Query / Fellow shipmates Lochiel Scotland

[Ivan Cloherty]

I feel that he may have been Working for the Anchor Line New Zealand at some sage as the Cap Badge displays the Anchor.
Cheers

Doc the official BOT MN Badge had an anchor in it, nothing to do with Anchor Line, when companies used their own livery it was normally a miniatiure houseflag

Linda the background colour of the velvet is more maroon than post box red, so pick a shade twixt the two should be okay, but err on the darker side

[Linda Phillips]

Was there a crown on the top and was the rest of the badge gold? I would really love a picture of the correct badge to give to the artist as he will detail this very carefully. I just can't identify from all the pictures I have seen as the photograph is so old and none of my family can remember the exact detail. Thank you as always for being so helpful and knowledgable

[Ivan Cloherty]

Was there a crown on the top and was the rest of the badge gold? I would really love a picture of the correct badge to give to the artist as he will detail this very carefully. I just can't identify from all the pictures I have seen as the photograph is so old and none of my family can remember the exact detail. Thank you as always for being so helpful and knowledgable

Linda see posts 29 and 30, the badge not on the caps is the standard BOT MN issue and is quite clear, the badges on the caps are known as Bombay Bloomers and a lot of people on the Asia runs bought them (in Bombay) as they had more gold braid to impress the natives, (can I say that?) and gave the wearer a feeling of self worth. The standard MN issue was good enough for real seamen.

The portrayal of the cap in #25 is more akin to how a MN officer wore is cap with soft edges, rather than the caps portrayed in #29 which is more akin to RN style with internal wire supported edges to form a hard circle.

You're getting there Linda don't worry too much about small details, it is the memory of the wearer which is more important, I feel you have enough now to portray the correct picture.

[Linda Phillips]

OMG, that is exactly what I needed, eternally grateful. Thank you so very, very much. You are all awesome x

[john walker]

I have been watching the thread with interest, I have said it before and do not mind repeating the words 'It never stops amazing me as to the help a lot of people on this site give to complete strangers /new members and anybody that asks.' Well done guys and carry on the good work, Linda Phillips well done for your politeness in thanking the guys some do not even bother.

[Tony Taylor]

I have been watching the thread with interest, I have said it before and do not my repeating the words 'It never stops amazing me as to the help a lot of people on this site give to complete strangers /new members and anybody that asks.' Well done guys and carry on the good work, Linda Phillips well done for your politeness in thanking the guys some do not even bother.

hear hear John!

[j.sabourn]

#25 Linda unless anyone has already told you if that is your Dad in picture , he appears to be wearing regular MN uniform Braid , but what appears a Company Hat badge. This was quite common , I myself when had to do, did the same. The MN was not like the RN restricted to rules on such after all we were civilians. The same as footwear uniform shoes in blues were toeless toecapped laced black shoes. Most photos of the past dont show this. I doubt if any of your passenger ships are wearing MN uniform they wear Company Livery. Regards JWS.

[Brenda Shackleton]

Hello
Although the arm braids are very similar to a Captain the cap has no gold oak leaves around the rim which signifies Captain/ Master("Hearts of Oak" ... )
As for, 'Going down with the ship' that emotional blackmail finished during WW1. Ships are replaced - men are not.

On 11th January 1941 my Dad (later Capt. W.J.HARTLEY D.S.C.) was 1st Officer on the Rescue Ship, BEACHY. She was bombed and the ship was sinking. This is from my Dad's notes. " I collected my Life Jacket and then saw Capt. Banning. He had a broken leg. i offered to help him over the rail. "You go, never mind me." he said. I reminded him that he had a wife and a young daughter to consider. I never believed in this kind of heroics so I told him that if he didn't go of his own free will, then I would see to it that he did and he wouldn't know anything about it. "You would use violence?" he said. " Not violence. I would just knock you out" I said. So he shuffled to the taff-rail and I assisted him over and down into the boat. We arrived in the Clyde and he was taken to Kilmalcolm Hospital.

I became , like many of my shipmates, a 'Survivor; a number of whom I was destined to meet in their distress on many occasions in the future.
regards
Brenda1941 A BEACHY Capt. Banning Ships A.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

1945 K OCTOBER DISCHARGE Scan_0001.jpg First photo is Capt. A. Banning D.S.O. later Master of Rescue Ship RATHLIN
This one is of Dad.

[j.sabourn]

In peace time and a merchant ship going down , and the master staying on board until the last minute or hour as the case may be , such as the Titanic or the Flying Enterprise , my devious mind immediately sees the probable two answers Why ? first if there is no one on board a derilict then the vessel is open to any vessel who can salvage her. and second the master may be of such a mind that he will be thinking of what the future holds in the long legal wrangling of why? and how come such was allowed to happen ?
As regards the RN and even in wartime and a vessel being lost to enemy action I was told that the commanding officer automatically faced a court martial by naval regulations.
In both the RN and MN one doesnt lose a vessel without repercussions , whether in the right or wrong. You are not judged by God but by your peers , and only God can help you if those Peers are dumb dumbs. If the master of the Titanic had of had to face a Board of Enquiry there is no doubt in my mind that he would at the least of been heavily censored for his actions before the disaster which lead to the same. To the uninitiated he always appears as a kindly old soul dressed for the part in whatever film version is shown. Believe what you may. The truth is sometimes a bit more complex. Cheers JS
PS For those not aware who will be very few, the gold braid for the MN is backed by Purple for engineers, and for sparkies by green, medical staff by white , or at one time they were. Anything shown as pictures on here , if not the one and only MN uniform is Company Livery. The Gold Braid with a diamond signifies that the wearer holds a certificate of Competency. Cheers JS

[Linda Phillips]

I just wanted to say a final thanks and goodbye from me, I am now happy to say, portrait of dad completeShoulder Boards.jpgDad drawing.jpg and shoulder boards purchased, I know my step mum will be very happy to receive these gifts from me in honour of my dad. I am very grateful to all of you here for the support and help provided to get me to this stage. I wish you a safe & healthy future, I salute you all.