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Thread: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

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    Default Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    In 1918 the "The Stewarts Court" was torpedoed 21 Aug 1918, and the "Lord Stewart" was torpedoed 16 Sep 1918. My Grandfather Chief Engineer Thomas Taylor Gardner's Obituary in 1945 mentions that he was sunk in the "Blackhill" in Thames Estuary in late 1939, but also that he was torpedoed in WW1, but no mention of the ship he was aboard. I have found crew records from early in WW1 that have him serving on both vessels, but I can't determine which of the two ships he was on when they were torpedoed. Maybe he was aboard both when they were sunk!! I would greatly appreciate any assistance in finding crew lists that identify the crew aboard at the time when the ships were sunk.

    Regards,
    Tom Grieves

    Please see attached image.
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    Last edited by Tom Grieves; 23rd June 2020 at 09:09 AM.

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    Keith at Tregenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    I believe this to be the correct person:

    Chief Engineer Thomas Taylor Gardner OBE 1864-1945.

    THE SYREN AND SHIPPING ILLUSTRATED - WEDNESDAY JUNE 10 1942 - A WONDERFUL VETERAN

    Among the portraits published this week under the heading of "Honour To The Merchant Navy" is one of Mr. Thomas T. Gardner, who was awarded the O.B.E. for gallant services as chief engineer in one of the vessels of the Stag Line (Joseph Robinson and Sons) North Shields. In sending us his photograph, Mr. Gardner hopes we will not think it too bad for "a young chap of nearly 78 years". We certainly do not, and we regard him a s a wonderful example of the lion-hearted spirit which animates our merchant sailormen. Mr. Gardner has been at sea for about 55 years and was torpedoed in the North Sea last year. Undaunted he got another ship, and made voyages to Canada and to the United States. He has come ashore now, but is on the deferred list of the Merchant Navy Reserve Pool, though in his case he regretfully reads "deferred" as "too old."

    NEWCASTLE JOURNAL AND NORTH MAIL - TUESDAY JUNE 29 1943 - SEA LURE HOLDS HIM STILL AT 79

    Seventy-nine-year-old Chief Engineer Thomas Taylor Gardner was probably the oldest member of the Merchant Navy when he completed his last voyage just over two years ago. As a matter of fact he is still in the service for his name is on the Reserve list of the North-East Merchant Navy Pool and he told a Journal and North Mail representative who visited him at his home in Ashleigh Grove, Fulwell, Sunderland, yesterday "if I had my way I would still be at sea." For Chief Engineer Gardner, after an uninterrupted service of 55 years, is a lonely man. Left a widower 13 years ago, his only son is a confirmed invalid, and his only daughter who formerly kept house for him, is now on work of national importance in Leeds. To add to his troubles, his house was damaged in a recent air raid. The King recognised his outstanding service by making him an O.B .E. in the 1942 New Year's Honours.

    IN LAST WAR

    A native of Sunderland, soon after finishing his apprenticeship with the North-Eastern Marine Engineering Company, he made his first voyage as third engineer in the SS Riversdale, one of Sir James Laing's ships. In the last war he had many escapes and came through unharmed and the wearer of two medals. His last voyage was in the Photinia, owned by the Stag Line. In this he made one voyage to Halifax and Portland, Maine, USA from December to April 1941, when he retired.

    Chief Engineer Thomas T. Gardner O.B.E. 1864 - 1945

    First Class Marine Engineer Certificate Number 23658 issued at Port of Sunderland 18 January 1893. At the time the certificate was issued, Thomas Taylor Gardner lived at 16 Athol Rd, Sunderland. 18 November 1939 - "SS Blackhill" (2492BRT) steamer, Tees from Salta Caballo, was sunk by a mine in the Thames Estuary. One member of the crew died. T.T. Gardner was the Chief Engineer at time of sinking. Following the sinking of the SSBlackhill, Chief Engineer Thomas Taylor Gardner returned to sea for another seven voyages. He sailed in the SS Leadgate for six of these. His last voyage was in the SS Photina from December 1940 to April 1941. In September 1940, aged 77, he was aboard the SS Leadgate, part of the ill fated Atlantic CONVOY HX 72 of 47 ships that suffered 9 ships sunk and 4 damaged by U boat attacks. Chief Engineer Thomas Taylor Gardner's Merchant Navy Continuous Certificate of Discharge is numbered 152209.

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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    Had left adding more until some kind of confirmation but,
    adding link in case as happens, I cannot find it again.

    We remember Thomas Taylor Gardner

    https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm....estory/7066689

    Added: Just found: Warsailors.com :: Ship Forum :: SS Leadgate and SS Photinia
    .
    Last edited by Keith at Tregenna; 23rd June 2020 at 05:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    Last edited by Keith at Tregenna; 23rd June 2020 at 10:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    Strange one but there was another Gardner also Chief Engineer on that ship. Lord Stewart

    J J Gardner; rank/rating, Chief Engineer; age, 51; place of birth, Sunderland; previous ship, same.
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 23rd June 2020 at 11:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    Thank you Keith and others. Most of what you have posted here was generated by me some years ago when I was focused on Thomas Taylor Gardner's WW2 experiences. Not until now have I tried to find out about what ship he was on in WW1 that was torpedoed.
    I have not posted here for quite some time, and I am unfamiliar with the etiquette and conventions of using "Thank" and "Like", but I certainly thank you for posting the details you found relating to my Grandfather T T Gardner OBE.

    Can anyone of you gents out there tell me how to locate the crew lists for the two lost ships, "The Stewarts Court" and the "Lord Stewart" torpedoed in 1918. I am presuming that I will find T T Gardener on one or maybe both lists.

    Regards,
    Tom Grieves


    - - - Updated - - -

    Doc the J J is a misprint for T T.

    Regards,
    Tom

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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    There are Crew lists at the National Archives but they are closed for such Items for research at this time,so you will have to wait till all opens up again
    Cheers

    There is as i saw not long ago also a Crew List for the one Ship Stewarts Court at the Aeon Library as well but same thing still closed for Card Research

    https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collec...ts/649932.html

    Will have to Join to Log In and get Card list.


    Added
    At the bottom of each post there are two Text Items which say Like and Thanks just have to click on whichever or both
    Cheers
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 23rd June 2020 at 11:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    #6:

    No worries, we start at square one and part of what I do is to try and check
    what may be already on the net. All and any info helps us to help you further.

    Fingers crossed for more.

    Regards,

    Keith.

    ADDED:

    The Elliot Galer. Seaham:- 1911 - 1936. Launches 26: Lives saved 59: 38ft. x 10ft. Watson class,
    none-self-righter, single screw. 34 h.p. Wolseley petrol engine. Built:- 1911 by Thames
    Ironworks. Cost:- £3,564 provided out of a legacy of the late Mr. E. Galer, of Walton-on-
    Thames. Arrived Seaham station April 22nd. 1911. Of the 59 lives saved 13 were crew of the
    torpedoed "Stewart's Court" in1918.


    Just wondering if the lifeboat station may have more on the survivors etc.

    Also a bit more on: Lord Stewart - Lord Stewart 39M Wreck Dive

    K.
    Last edited by Keith at Tregenna; 24th June 2020 at 12:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    Just for now Tom we will resume this quest , so as to keep all in one place!

    As mentioned before there was another named Gardner (and again strange) as he too was on the other Ship as well??

    From National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, London

    G J Gardner; rank/rating, 1st Engineer; age, 51; place of birth, Sunderland; previous ship, Lord Stewart of Sunderland.

    Then we have yet this entry which may just be an error on initials

    T J Gardner; rank/rating, 1st Engineer; age, 51; place of birth, Sunderland; previous ship, the Stewarts Court, 121959.

    So on we go , lets hope we may get something?
    Cheers
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    Default Re: Seeking help for details of two ships torpedoed in WW1

    Come up with Crew list (you will have to apply) for one Ship, for 1918.
    Crew List Index Search Results

    Search results for Crew Lists in the Maritime History Archive
    Types of Agreements and Accounts page provides an explanation for the codes referring to
    the crew agreements held at the Maritime History Archive.


    Official_No: 123959
    1909: G2
    1910: G1
    1911: G2
    1912: E1
    1913: G2
    1914: G2
    1916: G2
    1918: G2

    https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/view...cial_No=123959 Email them first to find out more, direct the Email for attention Tanya MacDonald Chief Archivist.

    mhares@mun.ca


    https://www.mun.ca/mha/about/orderagreements.php Ordering page info.

    The other Ship seems to only go up to 1917 however there is the possibility that they may just have it to 1918, again ask in Email.
    Cheers

    Search results for Crew Lists in the Maritime History Archive
    Types of Agreements and Accounts page provides an explanation for the codes referring to
    the crew agreements held at the Maritime History Archive.


    Official_No: 119219
    1906: E2
    1907: E2
    1908: G2
    1909: G2
    1910: G2
    1911: G2
    1912: E2
    1913: E1
    1914: E2
    1916: G2
    1917: G2
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 22nd October 2020 at 05:08 AM.
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