Help Needed - My Grandfather

[Louisa Platt]

Hi all,

I was told, I do not know how true, by my father that my Grandad was in the Merchant Navy during WW2, when I was a small child I vaguely remember a photograph of a man in some type of military/naval uniform, but no one knows where the photograph is anymore.

I have exhausted most angles I can think of, Ancestry.com, National archives, Fold3 and cannot find any trace of him in the MN.

His ancestry is a bit checkered, but I have traced him, his parents, his marriage and all the children etc and his subsequent death records. I just cannot find his naval records.

My dad said he would tell them stories about a ship he was on-board that was sunk by a U Boat but he and many others survived and were rescued.

So this is what I know:

Name:
Joseph Banor (originally Banov when born, but v was mistaken for an r and it became Banor, his mothers name was Fanny Goldberg, his fathers Cassell Emile Banov, although on his marriage cert he says Joseph Banor was his father, this is because he didnt know his father or mother, he was alledgedly brought up by people who were not his parents).

Shipping company:
Manchester Liners (this is what my dad said)

Date of birth:
24th September 1919

Place of birth:
Prestwich, Crumpsall Workhouse Manchester

Wife name:
Margaret Moloughney (Banor)

Date of death: March 1982
IMG-20180116-WA0101.jpg
Residence: Gorton Manchester

I am living in the Middle East now and planning a trip home to Manchester in March so can visit places but I have no idea where to start Kew? Not sure how else i could verify if he did indeed serve.

Many thanks.

Louisa

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Louisa
Thank you for posting the question and I hope someone may be able to assist!
I have also looked at the NA Records and find no trace of that name or DOB.
there is a Lady Member (Marian) who does a lot of research so I am sure with time she will respond! She may be able to come up with something!
Cheers

I also looked in FMP still no trace!??

I don't belong to the following site but see possibly his name etc here you may want to persue it?
Cheers

https://www.myheritage.com/names/joseph_banor

[Louisa Platt]

Thank you for the reply, I know I also struggled to find anything and my investigative skills have been quite good over the years, especially finding missing ancestors from the family tree.

I am wondering if he didn't serve at all, or he used a different name.

Thanks a lot.

[Ron B Manderson]

Welcome to the site Louisa.
You will be a get a surprise what the mob members will come up with
Ron the batcave

[Ivan Cloherty]

or he used a different name. .

It is not impossible that he used a different name, lets face it at the outbreak of WW11 he would have been 20 years old and liable to be called-up for the Services and may have opted to join the MN as being less disciplined, but it was certainly not safer, 15,000 MN seamen perished before a single bomb was dropped on London. Seamen were being lost at an alarming rate and authorities were not too particular about your name or address, in those times you could probably have signed on as Donald , living at #1 Cloud Cuckoo Land and not too many questions would have been asked, they needed bodies to make up compulsory crew numbers for a ship to sail. So don't give up hope yet. Did he to your knowledge ever have a nickname, you'd be surprised how many of your shipmates never knew your given and family name, and alas vice versa, we mostly just used nicknames.

[cappy]

Welcome to the site Louisa.
You will be a get a surprise what the mob members will come up with
Ron the batcave

##yes louisa its suprising what old sailors can come up with ...lol cappy

[Marian Gra]

Hello Louisa, Welcome to the site I presume you have the following marriage details of Joseph's birth parents: They were married on the 28-Oct-1906 at Holy Law Beth Aaron Synagogue, Manchester.

Mother
Surname: GOLDBERG
Given Name(s): Fanny
Previous Surname:
Hebrew Name:
Age: 20
Condition: Spinster
Rank or Profession: Tailoress
Address: 145 Red Bank, Manchester

Bride's father
Surname: GOLDBERG
Given Name(s): Hyman
Hebrew Name:
Rank or Profession: Waterproofer Journeyman

Father
Surname: BANOR
Given Name(s): Cassell Emile
Hebrew Name:
Age: 24
Condition: Bachelor
Rank or Profession: ;Artist in Black and White
Address: 145 Red Bank Manchester

Groom's father
Surname: BANOR
Given Name(s): Alexander
Hebrew Name:
Condition:
Rank or Profession: Wholesale Clothier

Did Joseph have any middle names? the reason for asking is this:

First name(s) J W A
Last name Bonar
Gender Male
Occupation GOVERNMENT
Departure year 1938
Departure day 8
Departure month 9
Departure port London
Destination port Malta
Destination MALTA
Country Malta
Destination country Malta
Ship name Ranpura
Ship official number 148119
Ship master's first name J M
Ship master's last name LEGG
Shipping line P.&.O.S.N.COMPANY
City LONDON
Ship destination port YOKOHAMA
Ship destination country JAPAN

Could be a red herring of course given his age at the time. This particular ship did not sail for whatever reason! Those listed on board were listed as working for the Govt/Crown Agents.....Not MN

Will keep looking

Clutching at straws here Louisa

Name: Joseph Baner *
Arrival Date: 21 Oct 1950
Arrival Place: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Departure Place: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
Ship: Superior
Status on ship: Looks like ''wheel''

[Marian Gra]

Louisa, No joy on the MN front however there is an extensive tree on Ancestry belonging to an S Morris over 15,000 photographs/certs which include your gt,grandmother do you want me to see if there are any of Joseph? May take a while but I don't mind

[Louisa Platt]

Wow, thank you so much. Apologies work called today :-(

I am not sure of a nickname but i will ask my Dad if he knows of any. I don't know about the middle name, i will ask my Dad as all my Aunts and Uncles have middle names so maybe he did too but nothing on any of his official documents that i have seen. His name has definitely been used as variations, Banor, Banov, Banove, Banev, its a funny spelling. I have just requested Birth and Death Certificates for him as i have his marriage cert, but for some reason i cannot find his birth/death ones.

Thanks Marian, i have the marriage details and a fairly extensive tree, just not about my Grandad and my elusive Great Grandad, who it appears, took a ship to America several times during the early 1900's and married another woman there bearing more kids :-) He changed his name a fair bit too and has been difficult to trace, but we have found some stuff.

I am on ancestry so i can almost certainly have a look i think i had a look at his tree the other day, i can't remember i looked at so many.

My Dad said that the picture was of my Grandad in Whites (although I'm sure the photo was black and white ha ha).

I will call my dad again and try and pick his brains some more.

Thank you x

[Doc Vernon]

In Whites could also point to Royal Navy ??
Cheers