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Thread: the mini budget up-date

  1. #51
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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    Here in Oz we have the Fair Work Commission, strikes cannot be called until all lother avenues have been tried and then the unions have to go to the commission for permission to strike. The system works.

    But as advancements continue it will not be long before, as is the case in other countries such as Japan and Singapore, trains will become driverless.
    Continued strikes will just bring such changes forward.

    A fair days pay for a fair days work is fine, but so many do not want to abide by that concept.
    Some pay demands are way off beam, little wonder some employers will not talk and opt for contractors to do the work.
    It is becoming more so here in Oz.
    House building is a classic example. Years ago all such companies had their own work force, no longer the case, now all contractors.
    MY brother had his house built, the brickies, all Indonesian, were paid a fixed sum per house, gone the days of price per brick laid.

    As to your new PM, we were in London when the early pre poll voting was taking place.
    I know little of her but she would not have been my choice.
    Last edited by happy daze john in oz; 6th October 2022 at 05:53 AM.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    James, I read the article. Restrictive practices had a lot to do with the demise. Waiting a half day for a welder, multiply ply that any number you like and the number you get is wasted man hours.
    The yards were restructured under Harold Wilson when he he Geddes investigate and issue a report, which was half baked.
    Then we had Labour nationalise and drove away owners who had good relations with their preferred builder.
    The writer of the report uses hindsight, and fails to use it properly.
    In the early eighties there was no demand for large number of cruises.
    Last edited by vic mcclymont; 6th October 2022 at 08:23 AM.

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    Well if they were waiting half a day for a welder what does that tell you?
    I am surprised you have not got round to one of the most famous walk outs , who is the guy that twangs the string.
    The Gedes report recommended , The most important of those recommendations included having some yards narrow their scope of work to a specialization in certain types of vessel construction, the Gedes report was 1966.
    There were just to many yards in the UK and and UK shipping companies were starting to disappear, maybe the seamans strike had something to do with that as well? More likely cause was Commonwealth countries wanted there own fleets, most of those failed as well.
    The ship building industry demise was down to poor quality built vessels. Swans Hunter had been turning out bulk carriers that were a disaster waiting to happen, Poor design and build quality.

  6. #54
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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    The Geddes report highlights demarcation as a problem, which was ignored by th Unions and raised by Labour at Nationalisation 1977, again the T. U's failed to respond properly.
    The Geddes report states that the yards on the river should be combined into a going concern. It also states that building of Naval ships should be concentrated in fewer yards.
    As for tarring all the quality output of the yards with same brush, that is disengenious.
    The Nortsea ferry built for P&o at Govan in 187 is still going strong.
    The Iolair built by Scott Lithgow and completed in 1986 is still going strong.
    Yes there were quality problems with some ships (as is with some cars) but not all were disaster as you imply.
    Last edited by vic mcclymont; 6th October 2022 at 01:23 PM.

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  8. #55
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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    The Derbyshire/English Bridge is at the bottom of the sea along with all those who sailed on her, the English Bridge/Kawloon Bridge is also lying wrecked.
    All that ship Derbyshire did was kill people. A boiler explosion killed the ETO and the 3rd Engineer. Welders a known fact would fill ill fitting gaps on decks and plating with welding rods and just weld over the top of them. Quality control was a joke. I served my time in Cammel Larids and knew what was going on.

  9. #56
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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    Not so many years back we were building ships for the Australian Royal Navy.
    But no more, now we get them built overseas, the last one came from Spain.
    So we have good well appointed ship building yards sitting empty.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    James, I have included a sketch to back up what you were saying about workmanship, I sailed on the Sir John Hunter , a sister ship to the Derbyshire, three times once before the Derbyshire went down the twice after. During my time on leave after the incident a small section of steelwork was cut out and machined. It was taken from where the longitudal bulkhead met the transfer bulkhead of the accommodation or it may have been the pump room my memory is going here. I never served my time in a shipyard so no idea if this was a comon occurance or a one off but immaterial it shows bad workmanship. The longitudal bulkhead did not met the transverse bulkhead so they just slapped on doubler plates to cover the gap. As I said I drew this sketch from memory as it was over 40 years ago but it gives the idea of what was found wish I had taken a photo but if I remember right we were told not to photograph it.07-10-2022 08-06-31.jpg
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  12. #58
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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    The demise of the red duster was Uk joining the EU. this meant any goods coming from commonwealth courtiers was taxed but from Europe free.
    THis meant that the cargoes stopped and UK fleet was worthless and put some companies and most shipyards bankrupt.
    The availability and cost of air travel happened at the same time which put passenger ships at a disadvantage.
    A lot like I, went to colonies and got good work at good rates of pay. Never looked back.

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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    I had the misfortune to do draft surveys on a number of those vessels and found the hydrostatic supplied were the worst I ever came across. On the first one, got totally different answer on initial survey, so chief officer showed me that the hydrostatic book had duplicate pages with different figures. On close inspection, you could vaguely see a light pencil line through them. Luckily warned for further work on those vessels.
    I also showed how difficult it is to try and build efficient ships to carry multipool types of cargo.

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    Default Re: the mini budget up-date

    #55, maybe that was the working practice in English yards.

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