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Thread: The Bid for Leadership Race....

  1. #251
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    It would appear Graham that the knives are out in force.
    As one poli once said, 'at least with the opposition they stab you in the front'.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
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  2. #252
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    Quote Originally Posted by happy daze john in oz View Post
    As his colleagues testified, what is driving up prices in the UK is the global shortage of key commodities, from oil to food to semiconductor chips. What’s not to blame is wage rises, not when – according to economists at UBS wealth management – 99% of British workers are getting poorer.

    Government after government has promised that if we work hard, we’ll get on – and they’ve not held their end of the bargain. The Resolution Foundation’s latest report, Stagnation Nation (a telling title, that one), makes the remarkable observation that every worker aged 31 and under “has never worked in an economy with sustained average wage rises”. That is eight million people, or about a quarter of the labour force, who have never seen work provide a rising standard of living.
    Some real food for thought in that article, but the above two points really stand out for me considering the current situation with regard to strikes and also inflation.

    The latter point about those aged under 31 only underlines how nearly an entire generation of young people have been entirely failed by those in power over the last decade or so.

  3. #253
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim R Christie View Post
    Nationalists in Scotland are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of Truss becoming PM, as there is a widespread perception amongst them that she'd be even more helpful to their cause than Boris was.
    'Wee Burney' and her Westminster counterpart Ian Blackford would say that whoever was PM in the UK, of whichever party-just as long as obsessed Ms.Vinegar T*ts gets her second referendum.

    And if she wants to join the EU then she is 'shurely mishtaken'-whoops,I did a Sean Connery there-surely mistaken.
    An independent Scotland without an England,especially without a City of London will never meet EU entry requirements-far too poor. What complexities would there be with currency and border matters-it's bad enough now with Northern Ireland.!
    Why does she persist?,and why do a lot of the nationalist populace pander to the Pied Piper-ess of Paisley? (Aye,' I ken she's frae Irvine-but you know me-I love my literary alliteration......) Kilt.gif

    Last edited by Graham Shaw; 4th August 2022 at 05:00 PM.

  4. #254
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Shaw View Post
    And if she wants to join the EU then she is 'shurely mishtaken'-whoops,I did a Sean Connery there-surely mistaken.
    An independent Scotland without an England,especially without a City of London will never meet EU entry requirements-far too poor. What complexities would there be with currency and border matters-it's bad enough now with Northern Ireland.!
    Why does she persist?,and why do a lot of the nationalist populace pander to the Pied Piper-ess of Paisley? (Aye,' I ken she's frae Irvine-but you know me-I love my literary alliteration......) Kilt.gif

    Did it ever occur to you that at least one of the reasons Sturgeon is now the most electorally successful politician in the UK (yes, really) is at least party because ALL the opposition parties are of such dire quality and of such low appeal to the majority of the Scottish electorate that they're therefore unpalatable?

    As the years rumble on the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems continue to install so-called leaders that were even worse than that which went - and failed - before; lacking in quality, intelligence, conviction and integrity. That applies equally to the branch offices in Scotland as it does to the parties in the UK as a whole.

    As for Scotland being "too poor" that is utter nonsense and has been debunked time and time again. That may come as a shock to Daily Mail/Telegraph/Express readers.
    Perhaps you'd care to explain why Scotland would be unique amongst Western nations in being entirely unable to stand on it's own two feet?

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  6. #255
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    #254. Sturgeon most electorally successful politician. In the UK, rather sweeping statement without showing any proof.
    Scotland NHS failing.
    Schools failing
    Highest drug deaths in Europe.
    Kept back large amounts of Money given by UK government for Covid measures
    Subcontracts welfare benefits to UK Government, because she can't handle payments.
    Aye, she lacks honesty, integrity, won't say she lacks conviction as she has only one policy, independence.
    Vic
    Last edited by vic mcclymont; 4th August 2022 at 08:35 PM.

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    Default e: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    # 254

    Oh dearie me no,Jim,--Graham here reads the 'i' ,and the Independent (now there's a name to warm the cockles of self- assuming -'Mother Scotland'-Ms.Nichola Sturgeon's heart).

    Why'that's like me assuming Scottish left wingers only read the Daily Record and the Herald !


    Now then,here,from t'internet are some of the hurdles to be overcome by the Scots should they ever be granted independence from UK,which will have to happen first,before any application for membership be made.

    Leaving the UK

    First up, is the very large obstacle of actually leaving the United Kingdom. The Westminster government is against a referendum taking place and polls suggest there is not overwhelming support for independence north of the border.
    Euro

    Should the SNP get its way, the currency question in particular, “which caused the Yes side such big problems during the 2014 referendum, seems to freak people out”, said The Independent. It cited a 2020 YouGov poll that found most Scots want to keep using the pound, with only 18% in favour of switching to the euro.
    “An awful lot of persuasion will be required to soften Scots up on the idea,” said the news site.
    Deficit reduction

    “Another area which might be of major concern though is public finances,” said Euronews.

    New EU members are expected to work towards cutting budget deficits to 3% or less so “an independent Scotland could risk beginning its new life with a much higher deficit than EU rules normally allow”, said the site.
    Free movement

    Another contentious area would be free movement of people from the rest of the EU. Salamone said the Scottish government “would probably seek a special arrangement on the Schengen Area in order to maintain the Common Travel Area between Ireland, Scotland and [the rest of the] UK.
    “In the post-Brexit context, it is difficult to imagine the EU granting a treaty-level opt-out, but perhaps a model of deferred participation could be agreed,” he added.
    Border with England

    The thorny issue of a hard border between Scotland and England, with one country inside the EU and the other outside.
    As the recent experience over the Northern Ireland Protocol has shown, the EU sees maintaining the integrity of its single market as a red line it will not cross, even if it means dividing communities and putting up barriers to tOne major difference between the last independence referendum and a future one would be the thrade between member and non-member states.
    “Regarding the Scottish context then, the EU would most likely look to apply similar border arrangements seen on the Slovenian – Croatian border,” said Darryn Nyatanga, in another LSE blog. “This would entail the need for new infrastructures on the land border between Scotland and the rest of the UK, to ensure that checks are carried out on goods and to protect against illegal activities such as smuggling.”

    Opposition from other EU member states
    Eu
    ronews said on the European side, “any agreement between Edinburgh and Brussels would require the blessing of all member states, with some countries, particularly Spain, having their own separatist problems to consider”.
    However, Hughes told the news site that “Spain would be fine about [a] membership application as long as the independence process had been legal and constitutional”.
    “If London isn’t internationally recognised in Scotland and if Scotland is somehow leaving the UK without a negotiated divorce, then that will be very messy indeed,” she said.




    But you knew all that didn't you Jim?

    Anyway,it's not going to happen in my lifetime,your lifetime,or our children's or grandchildren's lifetime,is it?. No matter how much you want it,it's time to stop fretting about it and enjoy life.

    Cheers!
    Graham






    Last edited by Graham Shaw; 4th August 2022 at 08:38 PM.

  8. #257
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    Default Re: e: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Shaw View Post
    # 254

    Oh dearie me no,Jim,--Graham here reads the 'i' ,and the Independent (now there's a name to warm the cockles of self- assuming -'Mother Scotland'-Ms.Nichola Sturgeon's heart).

    Why'that's like me assuming Scottish left wingers only read the Daily Record and the Herald !


    Now then,here,from t'internet are some of the hurdles to be overcome by the Scots should they ever be granted independence from UK,which will have to happen first,before any application for membership be made.

    Leaving the UK

    First up, is the very large obstacle of actually leaving the United Kingdom. The Westminster government is against a referendum taking place and polls suggest there is not overwhelming support for independence north of the border.
    Euro

    Should the SNP get its way, the currency question in particular, “which caused the Yes side such big problems during the 2014 referendum, seems to freak people out”, said The Independent. It cited a 2020 YouGov poll that found most Scots want to keep using the pound, with only 18% in favour of switching to the euro.
    “An awful lot of persuasion will be required to soften Scots up on the idea,” said the news site.
    Deficit reduction

    “Another area which might be of major concern though is public finances,” said Euronews.

    New EU members are expected to work towards cutting budget deficits to 3% or less so “an independent Scotland could risk beginning its new life with a much higher deficit than EU rules normally allow”, said the site.
    Free movement

    Another contentious area would be free movement of people from the rest of the EU. Salamone said the Scottish government “would probably seek a special arrangement on the Schengen Area in order to maintain the Common Travel Area between Ireland, Scotland and [the rest of the] UK.
    “In the post-Brexit context, it is difficult to imagine the EU granting a treaty-level opt-out, but perhaps a model of deferred participation could be agreed,” he added.
    Border with England

    The thorny issue of a hard border between Scotland and England, with one country inside the EU and the other outside.
    As the recent experience over the Northern Ireland Protocol has shown, the EU sees maintaining the integrity of its single market as a red line it will not cross, even if it means dividing communities and putting up barriers to tOne major difference between the last independence referendum and a future one would be the thrade between member and non-member states.
    “Regarding the Scottish context then, the EU would most likely look to apply similar border arrangements seen on the Slovenian – Croatian border,” said Darryn Nyatanga, in another LSE blog. “This would entail the need for new infrastructures on the land border between Scotland and the rest of the UK, to ensure that checks are carried out on goods and to protect against illegal activities such as smuggling.”

    Opposition from other EU member states
    Eu
    ronews said on the European side, “any agreement between Edinburgh and Brussels would require the blessing of all member states, with some countries, particularly Spain, having their own separatist problems to consider”.
    However, Hughes told the news site that “Spain would be fine about [a] membership application as long as the independence process had been legal and constitutional”.
    “If London isn’t internationally recognised in Scotland and if Scotland is somehow leaving the UK without a negotiated divorce, then that will be very messy indeed,” she said.




    But you knew all that didn't you Jim?

    Anyway,it's not going to happen in my lifetime,your lifetime,or our children's or grandchildren's lifetime,is it?. No matter how much you want it,it's time to stop fretting about it and enjoy life.

    Cheers!
    Graham






    Graham,
    I knew all that and more. Lots of obstacles as is natural but absolutely nothing insurmountable (and some quite easy to solve). Let's remember that no less than 65 countries have achieved political independence from the UK and none of them are looking back.

    Keep your eye on the supreme court over the next few months, as the cat is about to be put well and truly amongst the pigeons.

    Don't be so sure it won't happen in any of our lifetimes. If nothing else the demographic tide is already well on the turn both with regard to attitudes to the EU and an independent Scotland.
    I wouldn't be too shocked to see the UK (regardless of it's component parts) knocking at the door of the EU for readmittance within 10-15 years, simple fact is that it was the grey hairs who majority voted for Brexit not the young uns, and as the years move on time takes care of that issue.

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  10. #258
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    Quote Originally Posted by vic mcclymont View Post
    #254. Sturgeon most electorally successful politician. In the UK, rather sweeping statement without showing any proof.
    Scotland NHS failing.
    Schools failing
    Highest drug deaths in Europe.
    Kept back large amounts of Money given by UK government for Covid measures
    Subcontracts welfare benefits to UK Government, because she can't handle payments.
    Aye, she lacks honesty, integrity, won't say she lacks conviction as she has only one policy, independence.
    Vic
    Under her leadership the SNP has won three general elections in Scotland, two Scottish parliament elections and two local authority elections and all by quite some margin.
    Show me another incumbent UK leader who's done so well electorally?
    Statistically speaking, Sadiq Khan is the closest contender.

    She might not be everyone's cup of tea, but the Scottish electorate have consistently demonstrated that to them the Tory/Labour/Lib Dem alternatives simply don't bear thinking about.

    As for stating she lacks honesty and integrity, coming from a fan of Bojo the irony is simply breathtaking.

    P.S. Take a look at England's health system in particular and tell me who's failing. A cynic might consider it's being deliberately designed to fail by a party historically hostile to it, just so they can sell it off in due course to their mates (and relations) in the city whilst pocketing shares and post-politics directorships in turn. A bit like what happened to BR actually - same party remember.
    Last edited by Jim R Christie; 4th August 2022 at 11:40 PM.

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  12. #259
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    To remain popular and remain in power most leaders have to spin like mad.

    The lay in the Kilt is no different spin enough and the media will take to it using it as a means of selling copy.
    The media is one of the most powerful forces around, they can make or break a gov. Currently this lady is obviously a good source for them, keeps them in business.

    But on a different note, last night on Oz TV a program about British PM and what happens to them when they leave office.

    They lose their flat above number ten.
    They lose their country retreat at Chequers.

    But they now receive an annual pension of some 115,000GBP
    An office with a secretary.
    A permanent chauffer in a bullet proof car
    Permanent security guard.

    But then they often go on to other things where the perks are even better, more renumeration than the pension they get.
    Tony the phoney is now said to be close to becoming a billionaire from all the perks he has received since leaving office.
    No doubt Boris will do the same.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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  14. #260
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    Default Re: The Bid for Leadership Race....

    Take a look at England's health system in particular and tell me who's failing. A cynic might consider it's being deliberately designed to fail by a party historically hostile to it, just so they can sell it off in due course to their mates (and relations) in the city whilst pocketing shares and post-politics directorships in turn. A bit like what happened to BR actually - same party remember.
    Last edited by Jim R Christie; Today at 12:40 AM. Typical Socialist response, there is no evidence of wholesale privatisation in the NHS, the present Government has pumped billions into the NHS.
    Talk about cronyisim, look at Ferguson Marine and the shambles created by the SNP and its Government.
    Edinburgh Children's Hospital opening delayed as the ventilation system was not up to standard.
    The £600,000 that has disappeared from accounts controlled by her husband (not suggesting it was stolen by him).
    Misuse of Civil Servants by the SNP
    The list is endless.
    But hey-ho you get what you vote for.

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