P&O Ferries

[j.sabourn]

#40 Very similar to the North Sea agreement on the proper ships Louis. Plus on the N.Sea agreements think it was a bonus of 5 pounds for every rig anchor up or down, think also was paid extra on the mileage of length of tow. Do you know if that still exists ?
4 weeks on and 4 weeks off North Sea. In Australia 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off. The non union stand by boats paid what they wanted which was very little in the N.S. , your time on depended when they could get any fool to relieve you. some of them paid leave at a day a week served if you were lucky. Maybe P & O got their idea of cheap labour from these fly by night companies before the big bang . JS.

[cappy]

Llouis your whole argument hangs itself ......years ago the unions did nothing about portugese workers etc ....your unions do nothing .....prescott a scouse deputy prime minister ex mn did nothing ....if a foriegner is happy to work for that money .....he will be wealthy in his country....the world sadly turns on finance not labour .....the arab owners of p and o could just fold the whole thing and invest in other fields .....why do you expect a person or company to give you a job......what did the unions do about flagging out as they took your union money each month....they still have there jobs ....pensions etc....where are you now after paying hundreds if not thousands to keep union leaders in castles on pensions undreamed of .....year after year unions fade ...yet try and get the leaders out there castles and company cars and gold plated pensioins ....utopia louis perhaps in russia ....you constantly quote workers rights .....thats fine but someone has to give the worker a job ....before he has any rights to work or anything else...utopia valhalla not in this world louis....the brass bands have stopped playing ....no body listens..cappy R638532

[Louis the fly]

A typical and expected response from our resident union basher. I'm alright Jack sod the rest, not a mention of the 800 seamen who have been kicked out of a job so P&O can exploit third world labour. Even the Tory government have condemned the company. Not a mention of returning the 11 million pounds they happily took in furlough payments.

[Louis the fly]

*41 Yes John it could be hard and dangerous work on supply ships but we were paid well with one for one leave system. You saw both sides of life in the North Sea, working for reputable companies and those who exploited their crews to rake in the maximum amount of profit.
Some on site have not the experience but are always ready to offer their opinions on subjects they know nothing about.

[cappy]

the union man came to my factory and asked could he speak to the employees.....i said yes but they dont want to be in your club .....you can see them when they finish there work .....i told the folk .......nobody wanted the union in the shop ....the textile and garment workers union.....as they finished he was standing in reception they nearly knocked him over on the way out....the next morning i stopped the work on the floor and asked why did they not want to join....the answers were numerous from i dont want to pay .....to they do nowt for you ...the answer is louis those days are over ....you cannot treat people like sheep ....the old shipyard trick ..ie all in favour raise your hands ....oh yes thats passed then.....a bleedin joke.....but such is life .....and your statement.... im allright jack refering to me .....yes thank you very much ...i did it my way......R683532

[j.sabourn]

#44 There’s a bit more to it than that Louis the ball falls also into the court of the oil company’s and a couple of years ago they were still trying to do away with such , putting in their claim for a change in the law that they could have helicopters there within an hour in most cases. They exasperated the safety system as far as I am concerned by being in concert with the operators of these ships. In 1989 I wrote a small article in the Numast telegraph in reply to something or other , saying I thought the oil company themself should be responsible for the condition of these vessels. I was never a great follower of the propoganda they put out for public consumption. I wasn’t looking for friends and certainly didn’t make any. I have yet to see a helicopter that could get 229 men on board , even if they could get near a burning platform with bits falling off all the time for just over 3 hours. We live in a world of bull sh*t and must have some control of handling extreme situations away from those who have other targets in life. Safety all revolves around money to employ a safety boat daily runs into hundreds , to retain a supply boat on site until the next one comes out Costs. many extra thousands of pounds daily. I am No longer employed in that part of the Industry or any other industry for that matter , but I wish the Safety organisation that now exists in the North Sea have at least a bit of power to change the way it used to be run. Cheers JS

[Louis the fly]

You would not recognise the difference in the stand by ships today John, Piper Alfa brought about much needed change to the industry.
All the old trawlers scrapped replaced by purpose built ships. A complete ban on booze aboard, crews paid a decent wage, the days of running out of food and water long gone. The oil companies still making huge profits without exploiting the men on the ships.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Cappy.
The key answer in my eyes from your factory workers was; "I don't want to pay." I found that many people didn't want to pay union fees but accepted the wage increases, not brought about by unions for no reason, but by price rises for profit. I had to handle may cases where someone complained about not getting a wage increase from their boss, only to find out that the people were not in the union; and were frightened to ask the boss for it in case they were sacked.
In Aus today the cost of living is the highest for 40 years, not brought about by wage increases as there haven't been any for over ten years, it is all price increases which workers have not only no control; but have to accept as there are not as many unions to fight for them; there are Employers Associations ei Unions, galore; they are all covered.
Des

[happy daze john in oz]

Very true Des. in the union or not you got the same wage increase even if only half the workers were in the union.
Interesting article in the paper today about the 18 to 35 age group.
A number had been interviewed and all said the same thing.
Since the lock downs they have evaluated their lives and have come to understand that freedom to chose what they do and how is now the most important thing to them.
So they are now willing to work either full time or casual but on hours and times that suit them.
So the shortage of workers in hospitality continues.

It appears money is not so important to them now, enjoyment comes first and sometimes that does may be in a manner that needs little capital.

But no mater how we view things the fact is there is only one thing that makes the world run and that is profit.
But without profits there is no company and without that no jobs.
No matter how powerful the union, no matter how many members if the asking of them is too much then the company will no longer be prepared to work with them.

Union officials are a bit like politicians, they will do any thig to stay in office, so to keep members on side will fight even when in a losing battle.

[cappy]

One girl could sew 12000 meters a day .....another on the same job 8500 meters per day on the same job and same machine....the union paid the same rate for both.....piece work sorted that out one girl got approx 30 percent more wage ...the union rates per hour were crap .....what my girls earned was up to them .....not held back by some person who in all honesty had probably never worked a bleedin sewing machine....and earned more than the operator of such ....as for the term.. im all right jack .... .....posted by our local convenor....ex liverpool now lincs potato picker...staff were knocking at the door to be part of our non union shop....cappy R683532