Australian Nuclear Subs.

[Jim R Christie]

A friend of mine posted this today on Facebook. It is an advert by Bernard Schultz Isle of Man.

They are looking for most Engineering ranks

GAS ENGINEER REQUIRED QFLEX VESSEL (Motor)
Immediate Start
3/4 month tour.
A minimum of 2 tours on LNG required

Temporary first contract with an option for a permanent contract - including 28 days annual leave, annual performance bonus, priority pass, healthcare inc. family, WIFI onboard.
They must be taking the piss.
Some have said young Brits today would not be interested in a Career at sea today, is it any bloody wonder.

I was about to make the same point myself.
Those here who might decry why young people would not choose a career at sea quite obviously haven't got the first idea of what modern life at sea today is actually like.
Intense micromanagment from ashore, constant audits and inspections by petty beauracrats, constantly increasing criminalisation of the modern seaman, no shore leave at all due to either short turnarounds in port or port security arrangements, zero tolerance policy towards alcohol, no social life onboard, minimum manning crews, zero job security, T&C's which are gradually but steadily taking steps backwards, no pension provision at all, long working hours (in many companies an 84 hour week is standard), overtime non existent etc.
Even passie boats is a pretty miserable existence these days as the BS and micromanagement from ashore ratcheted up enormously post Costa Concordia. The upheaval in Carnival at the time caused a good pal of mine who was a Staff Captain with P&O Cruises to throw in the towel as he'd had enough. On cruise ships now the "operations centre" ashore at HQ listen and watch (via CCTV) live feeds from the bridge and engine room 24/7 to monitor the officers there and they're not shy in making angry phone calls to those concerned or the Master or C/E should they not like what they see, that includes things like non job related chit chat when on watch as that's now forbidden. Quite frankly it's an oppresive culture there now.
Life is even worse for cadets today as their pay is so poor they all now have to take out student loans and many take on second jobs during spells at the college to make ends meet etc. The overwhelming majority of them don't have jobs to go when they finish their time as they're employed as tonnage tax cadets so as to facilitate tax breaks. I never had much money as a cadet but that was entirely self inflicted through wine, women and more wine.
I certainly wouldn't start out today and I'm so happy I had my time when I did as the seagoing world that I (and the rest of us knew) has long gone, never to return. I enjoyed excellent T&Cs with all my employers and also have an excellent pension that is now no longer available to new entrants.
Life at sea has changed to the point that it is unrecognisable and it's much the worse for it.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Never went on strike in my life while at sea, did you or any others on the forum? If so why did you go on strike.Th e Union must have had a reason to go on strike. Members must have been pushing the union to improve pay and conditions. I was not at sea in 1966 so I will not pretend to know the reasons for strike action.

No I never went on strike, when I sign something, I stick by it.

Your remarks on Unions just goes to show that you do not know how Unions work, Union leaders bring their members out on strike, whether they want to or not, so that they can exercise their power and reap rewards denied their members.

[Jim R Christie]

Your remarks on Unions just goes to show that you do not know how Unions work, Union leaders bring their members out on strike, whether they want to or not, so that they can exercise their power and reap rewards denied their members.

In my seagoing life encompassing tankers, general cargo, box boats, Ro-Ros, a cruise ship and some other odds and sods, those outfits with the best terms and condidtions were always those which had a greater proportion of union membership amongst their staff.
That was not a coincidence.
The most heavily unionised of the lot quite literally had (and still has) the best terms and conditions for officers and ratings in the industry today.
Money etc aside, I've also found unions (both my own and others) eminently useful in raising and addressing safety concerns when required; even the best run companies can occasionally require the latter, usually when they've decided to employ some kind of mercenary as a superintendent who's more concerned with his own ego than being faithful to his profession.

All of that doesn't chime with cliched views of trade unions, but it has certainly been my own experience.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

I did ten years on British ships when the Union head was up the bosses anus, and he was knighted for his service AGAIST seamen, that was Sir Tom Yates, he ended up in Tasmania probably as far away as possible from anyone who would have duffed him up.
On the NZ coast we had monthly meeting where if you were in port you had to have your book stamped, if it wasn't there; you were fined, the seamen ran the union, at times they removed some of the Secretaries, one in Auckland for fiddling the books. I wasn't there when the end came so I can't comment much on why, but I will speculate that the containers were the problem.
Des

[j.sabourn]

Unions always get a bad press regardless . They go out of their way to show the worse side of any union which is the apparent intimidation by the more brusque and less well educated of the merry throng. There are many law abiding and less brusque members in any union and they have succeeded in many instances over the years in getting better conditions for their members . Seamen were always treat like second class citizens to many shipowners so has always had that air of animosity between the two. The best British shipowner I worked for was a Jew .,Most foreign owners be they Chinese, Indian, West Indian, Singaporean, or whatever have always shown more respect to those British seafarers working for them than their own countrymen. I still think a Union is a necessary feature in any working mans life , but today the militancy is unnecessary. JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

John.
There again, one has to look at the way the Govt has treated the nurses, Ambos, and aged care workers over their low pay rate, while they pump up theirs every chance they get. the fight goes on.
Des

[j.sabourn]

Des I think it may have been just after your time in Aussie ships but about 1994/5 the seamans union out here was looking for their annual rise. They got it and no doubt those in other industry’s were saying look at the earnings of the seamen. However I cant remember seeing in any salubrious newspaper editions what had to be given away to gain a modest cost of living rise and doubt the landlubber ever realised it cost the cook his job. It was always known among seamen you weren’t supposed to sail without a cook, forget that as old hat. Crews of 12 after that special date never carried a cook again. The crew took on the job itself as extra duties. I never worked it out but suppose 2 cooks wages as would be two for the different swings, must have well covered any cost to the poor shipowner. Some say the poor shipowner, others tell the truth. Cheers JS

[Les Woodard]

Not only the maritime union got stuffed but they are still working on weakening unions here in Oz. I firmly believe that it was the sole intention of J Howard our ex PM when he finally got in to kick the working man as much as he could. If it was not for the MUA and CFMEU sticking to their guns we would be even worse of that we are now. Having said that. I saw the decline of working conditions before I pulled the plug and thought that was bad enough to only find out that they have got worse at the steel works I was at. Seems that everyone is policing each other and cameras everywhere. My son was sent there to do a job for his firm and told his boss that he did not ever want to go back there. He is a boilermaker and had to do induction to start the job then could not light up his torch unless he did another course not to mention that he then had to do another course to do welding and all the time was being monitored to see that he did not break any health and safety guidlines. Not only from cameras but from the workers there. Spoke to few seaman and seems that it much the same on board now. Oh how fecking lucky we where to have had our time as none of us would last one trip on board today for sure

[happy daze john in oz]

Think I am right in saying the last shipping company here in Oz was ANL which vanished some years ago.
Now I was informed by the manager of the Flying Angel here in Melbourne, foreign ships will not take on aussie seamen as if they tak them on in an Oz port they must pay them by Oz standards.


When employed in the Uni system there was a union for such workers.
Not a union man myself but joined as a Uni is much like parliament, you must watch your back all the time.
But having been with UCL that was easy to do.
A package was offered to some of us when an amalgamation was taking paced with another institute.
I took it as it was too good to refuse..

But a number who also took it but were not union members got less than us who were.

One rule for one, another for the others.

[j.sabourn]

John have you not worked out here in a seagoing capacity ? I only did for a short time 11 years in all . Probably over the years they have probably had their ups and downs and maybe I was lucky 1991 to 2002 was my time, and I must say they were the best conditions that I saw in 50 years Although it was a closed shop and to get employment you had to be a member. So there was no shortage of seafarers . I know one master had to wait 3 years to become a member and complained how I had seemed to walk in , but little did he know I had to pull every trick out of the hat to become a member of the Guild and it was because I had always been a member of the m.n and airlines assos.latterly Numast that got me in where I had been from 16. The Guild, The Seamans Union,and the Engineers Union literally took the place of the BSF , and I believe they made a better job of it looking after their members interests , and I had no complaints , even though I had my doubts about some of the luxuries . I shut up and accepted every thing going. I wanted some thing tangible for 50 years of sometimes penury. And I have a clear conscience on it to boot. The shipowner has got what he wanted cheap labour , but the time is coming when that cheap labour won’t be so cheap and the whole system will once again go through the same changes . I would say his last source for such will be Burma and after that maybe the martians May have landed to solve the climate change problems. Cheers JS