Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Madness

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    11,467
    Thanks (Given)
    3440
    Thanks (Received)
    7758
    Likes (Given)
    11953
    Likes (Received)
    34924

    Default Re: Madness

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    Tony and no need for ships personel to lose any sleep over , except to take a brolly to the pub. JS
    Only if the ship owner goes bust and another vessel is sold, because owners and Time Charterers will be drawn into long expensive legal battles of what constitutes a weather working day. In that era a lot tramp shipping owners with well found vessels refused to trade their vessels into Oz, as if one of their vessels had fallen foul of the WWF the nice people at WWF would sink their teeth into the next company vessel to arrive. I worked on both sides of the fence, as an owner's representative in disputes, and I also in my stint in Dubai I took 98 vessels on Time Charter and operated them, in the end the only people who win are the lawyers regardless of the legal outcome. A lot of owners insisted on having an Australiasia trading exclusion in the C/P

    WWF Waterside Workers Federation, much more militant than the ITF (International Transport Federation) and peculiar to Australia. You could negotiate with the ITF, you couldn't with the WWF, it was their way or no way, in reality they controlled the labour, not the stevedoring companies who employed the labour. As with John A's case I've also had to make structural alterations/additions to the vessel to satisfy their whim, because that's what they were, some militant's whim who wanted to be the strong man in the WWF.

    Sorry to say the worst reps and most militant were either expatriate Scots or Greeks, the Aussie labour just went along with it and worked at their own pace and that had only two speeds, slow and stop!

    But it's all water under the bridge now, but a nightmare at the time, but the WWF could have even taught the Chinese a thing or two about being obstinate!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,644
    Thanks (Given)
    12852
    Thanks (Received)
    13720
    Likes (Given)
    19101
    Likes (Received)
    76768

    Default Re: Madness

    That’s where I have erred . Misconstruing the WWF for the ITF. However as far as shipboard personel goes as to their duties any stoppages that concerned them were those not allowed for in the charter party , and this was stoppages incrued by defaults of the ship. Such as stoppages due to gear failure , laydays and demurrage and all the other clauses were known by masters and mates of ships , any other such as harbour and union stoppages were outside their control and somebody else’s problem. As far as I was ever concerned the ship and crew were the only problem I was concerned about. The shipowner and charterers and shippers could find some other fall guy to blame. Cheers JS
    R575129

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sunbury Victoria Australia
    Posts
    24,991
    Thanks (Given)
    8300
    Thanks (Received)
    10126
    Likes (Given)
    106523
    Likes (Received)
    45658

    Default Re: Madness

    Ban knives and forks, madness.

    White cholate had to be made to stop those black fella chewing the end of their fingers when the choc ran out


    As to chopsticks, a new Chinese restaurant in our town, all you can eat for $20 but you only get one chop stick.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

  4. Likes Doc Vernon, Denis O'Shea liked this post
  5. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Varsity Lakes, Gold Coast Qld
    Posts
    707
    Thanks (Given)
    583
    Thanks (Received)
    435
    Likes (Given)
    802
    Likes (Received)
    2226

    Default Re: Madness

    An old ship with open winches, engineers had them ticking as quietly as oil bath on arrival at Port Kembla. The untouchables boarded to start discharge of rock phosphate and to their disgust were able to start work within an hour of boarding. 2nd. shift started and all winchmen boarded with shifter wrenches. The surveyor was called and said all winches needed attention and work should stop. Don't know how I stopped the 6'3" 16 stone 2nd. engineer from throwing him over the side. We eventually finished discharge and sailed to Sydney to rig shifting boards for grain.
    On another ship on the rock phosphate trade, we were running short of new wires, so crew would run the runner under the focsle and then bring a freshly oiled one out of the other side. One wharfie said your are just oiling the old one , which was not true. The runner coming out was one which had been taken off a couple of changes before.

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    5,203
    Thanks (Given)
    480
    Thanks (Received)
    6080
    Likes (Given)
    4096
    Likes (Received)
    14782

    Default Re: Madness

    Maybe a bit off thread, but an interesting article on demurrage. Wonder how you would calculate demurrage when WWF reps held up discharge/loading over some outlandish reason.
    Rgds
    J.A.
    https://gcaptain.com/the-problem-wit...eid=3b737aa316

  7. Likes happy daze john in oz liked this post
  8. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    11,467
    Thanks (Given)
    3440
    Thanks (Received)
    7758
    Likes (Given)
    11953
    Likes (Received)
    34924

    Default Re: Madness

    Quote Originally Posted by John Arton View Post
    Maybe a bit off thread, but an interesting article on demurrage. Wonder how you would calculate demurrage when WWF reps held up discharge/loading over some outlandish reason.
    Rgds
    J.A.
    https://gcaptain.com/the-problem-wit...eid=3b737aa316
    Certainly not off thread John, the WWF actions caused lawyers headaches on both sides, because in a lot of cases it ended up in the hands of the lawyers because of interwined aspects of owners/disponent owners/receivers/shippers/stevedores....notice the WWF are absent from the list as because they were like drivers who caused an accident astern of themselves .by their actions they blithely driving off into the sunset. Normally when we had a vessel on Time Charter, we could settle disputes fairly amicably with the owners, regardless of the nature of the dispute, as we needed future vessels and they needed employment for their vessels and our hire payments were always paid before due date. However with one of our owned vessels out on Time Charter on the OZ trade the nightmares were guaranteed, a minefield laid by the WWF

  9. Likes Tony Taylor, Denis O'Shea liked this post
  10. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,644
    Thanks (Given)
    12852
    Thanks (Received)
    13720
    Likes (Given)
    19101
    Likes (Received)
    76768

    Default Re: Madness

    #16... My memories of the calculations were mostly as 2 mate where one of his duties was to keep what the company I served my time with used to keep what they called Red and Black Time sheets . The red sheets were all the monies advanced the agent the Agent at that time and the monies paid out as subs and so forth. The Black Time sheets however covered all the cargo times stoppages etc. The time notice of readiness was handed in and accepted at the custom house was the most. important. one however was that was the time that time started 24 hours later usually. Tonnages out or in daily were noted all stoppages and for whatever reason, log extracts accompanied these documents back to the office. One would study the charter party oneself later I found when master and mate and would make note where one or the shipowner could get screwed , however rarely saw the final cheque’s being passed and if the owner wasn’t” kicking up hell one assumed the voyage had been successful . JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 31st July 2021 at 12:59 PM.
    R575129

  11. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    11,467
    Thanks (Given)
    3440
    Thanks (Received)
    7758
    Likes (Given)
    11953
    Likes (Received)
    34924

    Default Re: Madness

    No 19 Don't disagree with a word you say about shipboard record keeping John, it's when the time sheets get back to the office the fun starts, most chartering offices had a laytime specialist, but as a supt you were invariably involved because of your own shipboard experience. Greek owners were the specialists in trying to screw you, they had some wonderful illogical arguments and theories. Must be on the ball these days with all the 'i's dotted and 't's crossed with container vessels on hire at $100,000 a day, glad I'm ashore.

  12. Likes j.sabourn, Denis O'Shea liked this post
  13. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,644
    Thanks (Given)
    12852
    Thanks (Received)
    13720
    Likes (Given)
    19101
    Likes (Received)
    76768

    Default Re: Madness

    In the offshore Industry Ivan , it was a continuous job on the spot market coming on and off charter. An anchor handler could of been on 8000 pounds a day in my time, what it is today don’t know. Whilst not as complicated as a deep sea vessel , was still all about money , mainly on the fuels and oils remaining on vessel . Also damage if any incurred during the charter . However usually the company would employ a surveyor to look after their interests. Believe there are a couple on site. Whilst I worked out in Canada I was offered a job as a grain surveyor in the USA which would have meant making my own arrangements on getting into the US and hanging up my own shingle. Was too risky money wise for a married man with a family. The only surveyors job that would have tempted me was the BOT and they weren’t paid a kings ransom. JS.

    PS I have a definite crib when it comes to safety and money when it comes to offshore and the assurance of safety first when it comes to the big oil company’s. All the time I worked in the North Sea to me it appeared that in a lot of cases the ships were dictated to what actions to take by the rig or platform as regards cargo discharge or backload. Weather seemed to be Immaterial to many of them , and I put this down to money . During the same period as mentioned a semi submersible rig was on 100,000 pounds a day so to keep her drilling was essential to get the well done and then to come off that particular charter. This will still be a quandary today . I never saw any such problem here on the Australian side , as the master had the choice of making such decisions without threats of losing a charter for his vessel , there was no Lord and master out here, the oil company’s may not have liked it , all I can say is tough s**t . JS.
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 1st August 2021 at 01:38 AM.
    R575129

  14. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Cooma NSW
    Posts
    8,972
    Thanks (Given)
    10199
    Thanks (Received)
    5221
    Likes (Given)
    44159
    Likes (Received)
    26885

    Default Re: Madness

    I sailed on the Aussie and NZ coasts for around eight years and though the wharfies used to make dam sure they went home to their wife's at night, I never struck to many holdups that wasn't in the best interests of safety al the time I was there.
    Des
    R510868
    Lest We Forget

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •