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27th May 2020, 09:24 AM
#21
Re: Bang Crash (A wee while back)
Came in in too fast and it sounded quite windy. Might have been an idea to put the helm hard to port. Sometimes, accidents just happen.
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27th May 2020, 10:40 AM
#22
Re: Bang Crash (A wee while back)
Originally Posted by
j.sabourn
Liability on a ship used to start and end with the master Ted. The only place years ago was when In the Panama Canal was run by the Americans where the master signed over responsibility of command of the vessel to the pilot for the transit of the canal, when all liability then was handed over. Those who remember in the old Bell Book PAMO stood for pilots advice masters orders. The reason why the master has this onus placed on him used to be , or one of the reasons was , that legally in the absence of the owner he is the owner, and his name and cert. number was on the cert. of Registry to prove this point. Today I don’t know if there has been changes to these old laws or not. In the absence of the master on the bridge the mate of the watch assumes his job. A pilot normally is there for advice. Cheers JS
That's interesting John, Would the same have applied in the Suez canal ? p.s. I always thought as the helmsman took and related back the pilots orders that he was the main man so to speak are you saying the Captain can therefore question an order from a plot in a situation such as this Terry.
{terry scouse}
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27th May 2020, 11:48 AM
#23
Re: Bang Crash (A wee while back)
Terry
As J.S. posted, the only place in the world where the captain of a ship hands over, legally, responsibility for the ship is the Panama canal,even to this date. All other places where a pilot is used, required or not by local regulations, he is employed for his local knowledge of tides, Chanel depths, berths, weather, language etc, if he has a different language to the ship's crew then by tradition English is used as a common language with the pilot providing translation where required. One of the reasons that American pilots often use hand signs to direct the helmsman to put the wheel over to port or stbd is to avoid any misunderstanding due to language. The captain, or his appointed deputy has at all times the responsibility to override or at least question the pilots instructions if they feel the pilots instructions (orders) are wrong as though the pilot has the local knowledge he may have little or no knowledge of the vessels individual handling characteristics. Often I have had to override pilots when I considered he was using excessive speed or helm amounts or insufficient helm.
The captain's ethos is safety of the ship, it's crew and it's cargo and these days, protection of the environment.
In the attached video though I wonder what the pilot and/or master were thinking?. Been up and down that stretch of water many times but never got that close even though knowing parts of that beach was a nudist one.
Rgds
J.A.
https://www.maritimebulletin.net/202...ssingen-video/
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27th May 2020, 12:34 PM
#24
Re: Bang Crash (A wee while back)
Amazing John, The only explanation i could offer is the helmsman has been given a head to steer and threw the wheel to port instead of starboard, The pilot had been dropped of and the skipper left the bridge to the mate, Who took his eye of the ball for a minute or two. Maybe in the chartroom. I don't think the helmsman would have been asked back Terry.
{terry scouse}
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27th May 2020, 12:36 PM
#25
Re: Bang Crash (A wee while back)
#22. Another one in the MSA Terry detrimental to the master in particular. On the demise of a vessel through say bankruptcy and the selling of the vessel to pay off debtors . The crew have a lien on the ship and are first in the queue for payment of all monies due. That is all except the master he has no lien on the ship as others , and would if had the money have to take out a civil and private action against his former employer. JS.
As regards the Suez Canal is not the same as the Panama Canal and the master is in charge of the vessel , not the pilot. JS....
Last edited by j.sabourn; 27th May 2020 at 12:45 PM.
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27th May 2020, 01:00 PM
#26
Re: Bang Crash (A wee while back)
More info on the incident here:-
https://www.marine-pilots.com/video/15377
https://container-news.com/high-spee...idge-accident/
https://www.seanews.com.tr/container...njured/186443/
The links within these links showing the vessel’s track (amongst other info) is interesting. There is also some confusion over the part that tugs played in the incident. One site refers to the aft tug being connected and pulling hard throughout although the towline is not obvious in the videos.
If anyone was in the cab of the first crane struck, he must have needed a change of underwear.
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More info on the incident here:-
https://www.marine-pilots.com/video/15377
https://container-news.com/high-spee...idge-accident/
https://www.seanews.com.tr/container...njured/186443/
The links within these links showing the vessel’s track (amongst other info) is interesting. There is also some confusion over the part that tugs played in the incident. One site refers to the aft tug being connected and pulling hard throughout although the towline is not obvious in the videos.
If anyone was in the cab of the first crane struck, he must have needed a change of underwear.
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27th May 2020, 01:16 PM
#27
Ooops
[QUOTE=Doc Vernon;347466]This is a Video of a Container Ship the Milano Bridge (a little while back) crashing into a Dock Crane .
How on Earth do these things happen??
Pretty nice though LOL
cHEERS
How does this happen....simply speed. If you watch the chart plot the ship approaches the jetty at 9.5 kts...excessive in my humble opinion... Misjudges speed, turns late and the rest is on the video. Am still tittering. would love to know the final cost of the incident.
Keep them coming.
Gordon Petrie R745806
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27th May 2020, 04:45 PM
#28
Re: Ooops
If you look at the video in #1, in the first 2 seconds you will see a wire attached from the aft tug to the starboard quarter of the vessel clearly outlined, in the last few seconds of the video you will see the tow line passing through the forward Panama lead on the stb'd quarter, in the intervening time of the video the line is not visible because of photographic limitations.
Why someone wants to titter at this unfortunate incident defeats me, it will affect peoples livelyhoods both afloat and ashore, alter a port's ability to function at its capacity causing forwarding delays etc etc, but each to his own
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28th May 2020, 02:14 PM
#29
Re: Bang Crash (A wee while back)
Originally Posted by
Doc Vernon
I saw this sometime ago and wondered how long I would have to wait before I could see it again on our site. I am not qualified to comment as my scambled eggs had purple on the inside. I am curious to know if the engine manoeuvring was bridge controlled. I suspect not.
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