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Thread: Grenfell Enquiry

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    Default Grenfell Enquiry

    Watched the report on the news of the enquiry, it slated the Firemen for giving out wrong information to the occupants of the distressed building. The information was based on the best practice at the time.
    The firemen were wrongly accused of not acting correctly.
    Later there will be an official report into the cladding failure and the failure of the fire tight doors, which negated any safe havens that they should have provided.
    Why weren't all the enquiries conducted in parallel? why single out brave men and women who were doing there job in the belief that others had done there job correctly.
    In my opinion you cannot issue a report on one aspect of a failure until all aspects of that failure has been fully investigated.
    The firemen have been hung out to dry, WRONGLY.
    Vic

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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    Vic, unfortunately first responders are easy targets when all goes wrong, who is going to be made the scape goat.
    stan

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    Keith at Tregenna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    Saw that on the news earlier,

    Sad.

    K.

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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    Having work for many years for companies supplying materials to them that are specified invariably the building contractors are given a choice I know for a fact not always but the cheapest product for the job is used in many cases also nearly always the one with the lowest price got the contract.I have wondered if that was the case with Grenfell as the best product would have been the most expensive If that was the case the council involved should take responsibility,I note that nothing has ever been mentioned bearing this in mind .To blame the fire service in my opinion is an absolute disgrace.If lessons are to be learnt the bast products should be the only one specified not a choice given.

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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by vic mcclymont View Post
    Watched the report on the news of the enquiry, it slated the Firemen for giving out wrong information to the occupants of the distressed building.
    The firemen have been hung out to dry, WRONGLY.
    Vic
    Unfortunately these reports are written with the benefit of hindsight and usually by people who have never got their hands dirty, although they will have had technical advisors, these advisors will have little experience of the real job, if they are cast from the same mold as those who are retained to advise on merchant navy films and documentaries, as I have found such advisors are normally ex Royal Navy and have no concept of how the MN works.

    I feel sure that the general public will not blame any firefighter involved in this tragedy or any other and they will continue to engender the respect they so richly deserve for doing the job they do.
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 30th October 2019 at 05:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    One can assume that the fire fighters gave the order to stay to prevent some form of mass exodus which may well have caused panic.
    Trained as they are the original message would have been the correct one under the circumstances.

    In my opinion some one is looking for a scape goat to cover up other non compliant regulations entered into by a department who did not do their job correctly.

    Here in Oz we have discovered many buildings with the same cladding.

    Builders use it considering that it must comply with Australian standards or it would not be available.
    It now shows that the department responsible for allowing it into the country did not do their job correctly.

    But the builders will get the blame when the dust settles.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

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    John Strange R737787
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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    " as I have found such advisors are normally ex Royal Navy and have no concept of how the MN works. "

    Ivan #5 I could not agree more - the RNLI is a prime example of the above with ex RN everywhere and guess what - the Volunteers get the blame just like the Fire Brigade is getting now when things go wrong - not the Management.
    Last edited by Chris Allman; 30th October 2019 at 02:02 PM.
    When one door closes another one shuts, it must be the wind

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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by happy daze john in oz View Post
    One can assume that the fire fighters gave the order to stay to prevent some form of mass exodus which may well have caused panic.
    Trained as they are the original message would have been the correct one under the circumstances..................................... ...


    But the builders will get the blame when the dust settles.
    John,
    as Dave Moore said, it is all down to cost.
    At the end of the day it is probably down to influence of the accountants or financial controllers who always apply "the bottom line" rule, people are now conditioned to accepting the best price, not the "best practice".

    As one of my old MDs in a previous job told me, accountants are there to keep the score, not play the game. He came up through the ranks and knew the jpb and the market inside out. I have seen it so many times where price prevailed over quality or practicality.
    Last edited by Chris Allman; 30th October 2019 at 07:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    Well, this report has come as no surprise to myself, always the same response, someone looks right through the messages on radios etc, then decides over days what could have been done better, and then give your verdict as an *expert*. The guys who dealt with this incident must be livid, i know i am.
    Firstly , this fire was a complete unknown, there is no one anywhere with experience of a fire such as this, and while there will be lessons learned, and mistakes made, by the Fire Service,they did a bloody fantastic job.
    What will, or should come to light, is why the building had only one set of stairs, and these stairs should have had fire check doors to keep that means of escape safe for a period of time. In my time in the service, high rise buildings, plus hotels were inspected annually , i know for hotels, since i left the service, that has been deemed to be no longer needed, and would be interested to know if the same applies to high rise buildings, i know from my stays in hotels they are no longer as safe as they once were, so would not be surprised if the same was applied to high rise.
    The *stay put* is generally the situation all over the UK, and i know from experience the call out to these building is fairly frequent, and bearing in my mind fire crews have to use the stairways to get to the correct floor to find the incident, with all the Breathing Apparatus, hose etc, if the evacuation was given, you would be going against the flow of people coming down. What i can see coming from this, is the evacuation will be given every time to cover their backs, then what will occur is residents having been evacuated to or three times in a month, will say *sod it* and stay put, with the danger that that creates.
    This was a completely unknown fire situation, with the fire travelling from the outside to in to the building at a speed never seen before, and you could have thrown another thousand fire fighters ito it, with the same result, as an retired fighter i hope the general public can see the the truth, those guys were bloody brilliant, kt
    R689823

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    Default Re: Grenfell Enquiry

    I was informed by my brother in law in London that in many instances the fire, which should assist in slowing the movement of the firer, were often jambed open to give easy access to other parts. That along with all the items stored in gangways no doubt contributed to the disaster.

    But consider this, a new university building was built back in the early 90's while I was employed there.
    On completion we found that there was no disabled access.
    When the architects were questioned on this matter they informed the university that at the time of drawing up the contract such access was not compulsory.???????????????

    How bloody stupid can they get????
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
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