Manning Scales.

[j.sabourn]

How do the manning scales for a fg vessel today compare with 50 years ago.They used to be found in the maritime year book. E.G. a 10.000 steamer would have as a mininum of 6 ABs 4 ordinary seamen and 2 deck boys as a mininum.however the 6 ABs could be substituted by say two SOSs per Ab and think 4 deck boys substituted 1 AB.
The same with the apprentices 1year deck boys substituted, 2year Jos , 3 year Sos, 4 year AB. However what got me even in those days unless under exceptional circumstances the ship was manned to take the ship from A to B and not to the special requirements for any other reason. JS

[Des Jenkins]

John
Made me wonder when I saw last nights news that they had arrested someone for that grounding in Norway, I thought the second Mate had put his hands up. The manning must be bad now as he said he fell asleep, where was the wheel man and the lookout?
Des

[j.sabourn]

Probably two figures of someone’s imagination today Des L!!! JS. Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the keeping of a proper lookout. Those were the ones I learned haven’t read any new ones have you ? Maybe they have been superceded by this A intelligence ? JS

[happy daze john in oz]

Looking at the number of crew on some container ships makes me wonder how they ever get to sail.
Just the very bare minimum to cover all watches and that is about it,.

But as for manning scale, well the one in our bathroom is most suitable for me.

[John Arton]

Every sea going vessel of 500grt has to have a Safe Manning Certificate as part of SOLAS convention. The manning scale is meant to provide sufficient manning in order that it can be safely navigated from port to port. Even prior to the introduction of this certificate the COLREGS had a section in the regulation regarding the keeping a lookout allowed for the lookout to be away from the bridge in certain circumstances provided he could be contacted at any time.
Now dependent on the employer the minimum manning can be increased especially for import stays as the international ship and port safety convention requires a permanent gangway duty person, meaning that any seaman being part of a cargo watch cannot also be the gangway Watchman.
Rgds
J.A

[Johnny Kieran]

Only thing I remember on deck, was 9 watchkeepers and 2 dayworkers, plus a peggy. Had that on most ships I was on except the bigger passenger cargo boats, where there were a few more dayworkers.
I never saw a lookout on the bridge, always on the focsle head unless the weather was really bad, then it was the monkeys island.
Standby was in the mess unless given some job to do.
Wheelman was either steering, or standing by in the wheelhouse.
Of course it may not have been the same on all boats, I just didn't experience anything different.

[j.sabourn]

Up until 1966 Johnny you are correct. After sailing from Port Talbot Iwas told the rules had changed overnight and if the ship was fitted with auto helmsnan and had a bell or phone to crews mess room then could go with 2 on a watch. They were all prepared as soon as the strike finished to,start the decline of the British merchant service. Two weeks later arriving in Cardiff I had a mot inspector ( I was mate) come on board and show him how the mooring and berthing parties were made up. I showed him. He said how many men do you have on the back spring I said 3 as they were fitted with heavy rope tails for ports with a heavy sea surge.,he said take those tails off and just use 1 man. It was all a put up job by government and shipowner to deman shipping in British ships , as said I debunked and went foreign where manpower never changed , it took 4 lascars to rig a stage .when I said what about ship maintainance his reply was all would be done by shore labour. Have you ever heard so much rubbish in all your life, obviously he was University trained and knew no better. Just the type who thought manual labour was a Spaniard., JS

[Des Jenkins]

Hi Johnny
It was the same when I was there, the only difference was when I was on the Kiwi coast, the lookout was on the bridge, all the Union Co ships had a little watch house either side of the bridge wings with windows all around but open on the bridge side, was never on the Forecastle. Plus of course there was a seat at the wheel.
Des

[j.sabourn]

When the lookout was on the forecastle it was often asked why up here. The reply jokingly used to be something like so I know you are awake. It was the days of ringing of ships bells on the hour and half hour and 1 bell 15/minutes before the end of the watch. It was the practice to repeat these time keepers by the lookout on the forecastle head and shout up to the bridge the burning of the ships sidelights and masthead navigation lights by lights are bright and alls well. The four years that I did can never remember shouting the port lights out and I’ve got a bad head, maybe someone else can think of a time when this upset may have occurred. JS

[Des Jenkins]

Hi John
And there's me thinking it was for the lookout to have a snooze without being disturbed.
But seriously how can they keep a forecastle lookout on these huge container ships, he wouldn't be able to see past the containers to report the side lights burning bright.
Des