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Thread: Vietnam war

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    #47 Dennis thank you for this information it is extremely helpful and enlightening. I have quickly skimmed over all the links and downloaded the information. I will look at it later in more depth when I have time. Once again Thank you. J.W.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    We did a couple of runs to Vietnam in 1970 on Humilaria. Interesting runs certainly an eye opener.

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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    Seeing the tunnels and some of the booby traps set by the Vietcong was disturbing to say the least.
    Most tunnels built at night by the females, some as deep as 9 meters to absorb the impact of the bombs.

    Not the most pleasant of paces but you have to admire the endurance of the females for digging such tunnels.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
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  5. #54
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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    Quote Originally Posted by john walker View Post
    #47 Dennis thank you for this information it is extremely helpful and enlightening. I have quickly skimmed over all the links and downloaded the information. I will look at it later in more depth when I have time. Once again Thank you. J.W.
    Dear John,

    I was digging around a bit more and came across a few other pages that might interest you.

    What stands out most is the fact that despite all the official denial, the Brits had a very big interest in countering the communist threat in all of South East Asia, therefore, not only in Malaya and Singapore but also in Vietnam, Laos and so on.

    A key term you may want to focus your search for is BRIAM British Advisory Administrative Mission. From there it becomes obvious that the Brits were far heavier involved and even much earlier on than when the U.S. sort of stepped in. It is widely considered that the Gulf of Tonkin incident and the following landings of the first U.S. Marines in Danang in 1965 marked the beginning of the American Vietnam war. Which is not that true, as the U.S. Special Forces in an advisory role, had by then been on the ground for several years. It is also clear that ARVN soldiers spent time in the SAS Jungle Warfare School Malaya and I’d guess that British SAS, same as U.S. SF, probably worked along the ARVN units they trained in Vietnam itself.

    It's those years between the end of the French colonial era when the Diem regime took power in the South, that those secret wars began and only with the arrival of the “big green machine” in 1965 did the secret strategy of covert and deniable warfare take a second seat. All the while, it is obvious, that neither the Brits nor anyone else ever had an interest in making this public…

    That’s why it might seem rather difficult to find information.

    But anyway, here we go, check these out, tons of info to suck up: https://declassifieduk.org/britains-...ar-in-vietnam/

    I found something interesting in the following link, quote: The Anglo-Dutch oil company Shell provided the US armed forces with fuel throughout the war. The British crews of the British-registered Shell tankers were paid a war bonus.

    This reminded me of some of the post in this thread mentioning the fact of Shell supplying both sides. Made me wonder if the real reason behind shipping fuel to Saigon as well as to Hai Phong, was perhaps to gather intelligence about the docs and fuel dumps (potential targets) in Hai Phong?
    Anyway, here you go: https://www.revolutionarycommunist.o...6-apr-may-2007
    And another interesting read here: https://consortiumnews.com/2022/12/1...n-vietnam-war/


    Cheers

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  7. #55
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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    Quote Originally Posted by happy daze john in oz View Post
    John #43. it was only going to Vietnam and seeing some of the tunnels and other bits of the war that I took real interest.
    In a museum dedicate to the war we viewed a video of the time, it was of great interest and my views on the war became clearer then.
    Yes China may well have been involved but this was definitely a war between Russia and USA.
    The Peoples Republic of China had been helping the Viet Minh since 1950 with small amounts of arms and small groups of advisers. Between April and September the P.R.C. sent 14000 rifles. 1700 machine guns and recoiless rifles, 150 mortars. 300 bazookas and 60 artillery pieces as well as ammunition, medicine, clothes etc. They also sent about 2400 tonnes of food. These arms etc. continued through the early 50's until the Viet Minh were fully armed and trained. Which culminated in The battle of Dien Bien Phu and the rest is History as they say.The Soviets had remained more or less neutral in the early fifties as Stalin was still the ruler of the U.S.S.R and did not wish to antagonise the Western Allies. Stalin also did not trust Asian communist parties as He thought they were to nationalistic. With the death of Stalin in 1953 and the first Geneva accords of 1954 the soviet Union started to help North Vietnam. During the period 1965 to 1971 China deployed about 300,000 troops in North Vietnam the peak year being 1967 with 170,000 Chinese in the Communist state. Recent archives uncovered after the fall of the USSR show that the Russians never had more than 3000 advisors in the country at any given time.
    I think the museum that you mentioned was probably the 'War Remnants Museum ' on Vo Van Tan in district 2 Ho Chi Minh City. I have visited it before and my only memories of it are that it shows the superiority of the various Vietnamese protagonists over the U.S.A and hardly anything good about the Americans. As the victors write the history I guess that is not surprising.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    BTW, a good read is a book called "SOG the secret wars of America's commandos in Vietnam". Just in case you're interested in learning more about the secret wars during that time period, though not much mentioning the British, except a few hints here and there which show the close relationship and history from the days of the OSS and later between MI5, MI6, British Special Branch, SAS etc and the American Special Forces.


    This book is probably one of the best sources covering this topic, written by John Plaster who served in Vietnam as a member of the SF in what was then called MACVSOG (Military Advise Command Vietnam Studies and Observation Group), commonly referred to as SOG.


    I highly recommend this book to anyone interested in the history of the Vietnam war!
    SOG 1.jpg
    SOG 2.jpg

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  11. #57
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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    Quote Originally Posted by john walker View Post
    I think the museum that you mentioned was probably the 'War Remnants Museum ' on Vo Van Tan in district 2 Ho Chi Minh City. I have visited it before and my only memories of it are that it shows the superiority of the various Vietnamese protagonists over the U.S.A and hardly anything good about the Americans. As the victors write the history I guess that is not surprising.

    Agree, and honestly, quite sad to see that even half a century later it is still not allowed to learn history with an open mind.


    Instead, the roads keep getting plastered with the same old propaganda tools like 40 years ago. Ironically, my 7 year old daughter feels scared when she passes by the drawings next to the school displaying the message of national pride and prosperity thanks to the victorious heroic patriotic struggle.


    one of my hobbies is to collect such stuff. Maybe one day when my daughters have grown up I'll be able to show them how it used to be when they were young, hope so anyway!


    here some examples (note how COVID made up for the latest enemy to combat)

    VC art 1.jpg

    VC art 2.jpg

    VC art 3.jpg


    @ btw, the Museum on Vo Van Tan is NOT in D2, but in D1

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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Billaney View Post
    Agree, and honestly, quite sad to see that even half a century later it is still not allowed to learn history with an open mind.


    Instead, the roads keep getting plastered with the same old propaganda tools like 40 years ago. Ironically, my 7 year old daughter feels scared when she passes by the drawings next to the school displaying the message of national pride and prosperity thanks to the victorious heroic patriotic struggle.


    one of my hobbies is to collect such stuff. Maybe one day when my daughters have grown up I'll be able to show them how it used to be when they were young, hope so anyway!


    here some examples (note how COVID made up for the latest enemy to combat)

    VC art 1.jpg

    VC art 2.jpg

    VC art 3.jpg


    @ btw, the Museum on Vo Van Tan is NOT in D2, but in D1
    My apologies for the disinformation. When I first went back to Vietnam in about 2011/12 I stayed at the Victory Saigon Hotel which was in district 2. I walked to the museum which I thought was also in district2. As you mention propaganda the Victory Saigon was one of the main buidings used by the American CIA during the war, which is why they probably named it what it is.

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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    I sailed on the Hemisinus 5E joined in London and eventually to Singapore and two runs to Vietnam with JP4 etc in 1969 doing various offshore discharges, up the coast then Da Nang, Saigon paid of in the gulf in January 1970

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    Default Re: Vietnam war

    No John #55, this was a museum close by the area of the tunnels.
    It was a black and white movie which certainly gave the impression that Russia and USA were the main antagonists.
    It showed news paper articles and troops dressed in Russian uniform.
    Maybe as you say they were only advisors but certainly gave the impression of being just troops.
    There are also in that area some left over items from the war.
    Two remains of tanks, one with what appears to be a Russian insignia on it the other clearly a USA one.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
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