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Thread: Two kitchens Milliband

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Sorry John we will have to agree to disagree. You may find this interesting.

    Abstract
    It has been reported that the Southern Hemisphere oceans experienced rapid warming during the decade-long global surface warming slowdown (2003–2012) and the earlier period of the Argo record (2006–2013). In this study, we analyze updated observations to show that this rapid warming has slowed down, leading to less contribution of the Southern Hemisphere oceans to the global ocean heat storage (∼65% over the available Argo period 2006–2019). Two warming hotspot regions, the southeast Indian Ocean and South Pacific Ocean, have experienced cooling over 2013–2019. This decadal shift is related to variations in the Southern Annular Mode and Interdecadal Pacific Oscillation. The isopycnal deepening (shoaling) forced by changing winds dominated the regional ocean temperature changes over the earlier warming (later cooling) period. Our finding demonstrates how decadal variability modulates long-term climate change and provides important observational information for the ongoing calibration of decadal prediction systems.

    Key Points
    The rapid warming in the Southern Hemisphere extratropical ocean has slowed down since around 2013

    The observed shift is related to decadal variations in the Southern Annular Mode and Interdecadal Pacific Oscillation

    The regional ocean temperature changes are primarily induced by the vertical heave of isopycnals in response to changing winds

    Plain Language Summary
    The global ocean has been warming up, as it absorbs most of the extra heat in the Earth system due to anthropogenic climate change. Regional patterns and magnitudes of ocean warming vary with time due to the natural fluctuations of the coupled air-sea system. Since 2006, the international Argo program has been providing continuous real-time ocean observations in the upper 2,000 m from a near-global array of autonomous profiling floats. Previous studies based on the earlier Argo record (2006–2013) have shown rapid warming in the Southern Hemisphere Oceans and most of the global ocean heat storage occurred in the Southern Hemisphere. However, updated observations show that this rapid warming has slowed down and was even changed to cooling in certain regions since 2013. This shift is mainly driven by changing winds through the downwelling of the upper-layer warmer waters over the earlier period and the upward pumping of subsurface cooler waters over the later period. Overall, the findings of this study highlight the importance of maintaining the current ocean observing system in order to obtain extended and reliable ocean records, which are necessary for revealing the long-term climate change signals of anthropogenic warming.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Sorry mate but that is not what is being put out here by our climate committee, cooling of southern oceans is the reason for our third La Nina in a row.
    Last time this occurred was back in the 50's but over the last 40 years there have been three two year events.

    Much talk about glaciers melting, in 2019 was in Norway as far north as you can go.
    First week in July with 24 hour daylight, walked out on ice meters thick, snow still on hills as low as 500 meters, locals have a very different attitude to all hype going on.

    Looked up some figures today on the nations rain fall for this year to date of November 5th.
    Total is some 30 mm less than for same time last year, but this year most is concentrated in a few areas of Victoria, NSW, Queensland and a one part of Tasmania.
    The total areas effected would cover about 1.3 times that of UK.

    But there is more and more evidence coming forth about the manner in which much information from all sources is collected and the vested interest in much of what is going on.

    Twigy Forest is the richest man here in Oz, a miner of many years standing.
    he is developing a Green Hydrogen plant with plans to sell to Singapore.
    At the same time he is selling coal to Chins for use in their newly built coal mine sin the north of the country where solar and wind are not suitable.
    A typical version of vested interests.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    As said John we both have opposing views . The planet is on the Highway to hell. I am dreading to think what we are leaving behind for our grand children and future generations. Greed will lead to the destruction of the planet as we know. Why are rich men spending billions on trying to find ways to get off the earth. Look at that Elon fella clever man but he has already left the planet lol. Maybe mummy is encouraging him.

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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Following are the opinions gathered together by the North American Space Agency and brief outline by other scientific bodies:
    Rodney

    Facts›Scientific Consensus, NASA:

    Temperature data from four international science institutions. All show rapid warming in the past few decades and that the last decade has been the hottest on record.
    Temperature data showing rapid warming in the past few decades, the latest data going up to 2021. According to NASA data, 2016 and 2020 tied for the warmest year since 1880, continuing a long-term trend of rising global temperatures. The 15 warmest years on record have occurred since 2005, with the eight most recent years being the warmest. Credit: NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies

    It’s important to remember that scientists always focus on the evidence, not on opinions. Scientific evidence continues to show that human activities (primarily the human burning of fossil fuels) have warmed Earth’s surface and its ocean basins, which in turn have continued to impact Earth’s climate. This is based on over a century of scientific evidence forming the structural backbone of today's civilization.

    NASA Global Climate Change presents the state of scientific knowledge about climate change while highlighting the role NASA plays in better understanding our home planet. This effort includes citing multiple peer-reviewed studies from research groups across the world,1 illustrating the accuracy and consensus of research results (in this case, the scientific consensus on climate change) consistent with NASA’s scientific research portfolio.

    With that said, multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources.

    AMERICAN SCIENTIFIC SOCIETIES
    Statement on Climate Change from 18 Scientific Associations
    "Observations throughout the world make it clear that climate change is occurring, and rigorous scientific research demonstrates that the greenhouse gases emitted by human activities are the primary driver." (2009)2

    AAAS emblem
    American Association for the Advancement of Science
    "Based on well-established evidence, about 97% of climate scientists have concluded that human-caused climate change is happening." (2014)3

    ACS emblem
    American Chemical Society
    "The Earth’s climate is changing in response to increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases (GHGs) and particulate matter in the atmosphere, largely as the result of human activities." (2016-2019)4

    AGU emblem
    American Geophysical Union
    "Based on extensive scientific evidence, it is extremely likely that human activities, especially emissions of greenhouse gases, are the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century. There is no alterative explanation supported by convincing evidence." (2019)5

    AMA emblem
    American Medical Association
    "Our AMA ... supports the findings of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s fourth assessment report and concurs with the scientific consensus that the Earth is undergoing adverse global climate change and that anthropogenic contributions are significant." (2019)6

    AMS emblem
    American Meteorological Society
    "Research has found a human influence on the climate of the past several decades ... The IPCC (2013), USGCRP (2017), and USGCRP (2018) indicate that it is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-twentieth century." (2019)7


    APS emblem
    American Physical Society
    "Earth's changing climate is a critical issue and poses the risk of significant environmental, social and economic disruptions around the globe. While natural sources of climate variability are significant, multiple lines of evidence indicate that human influences have had an increasingly dominant effect on global climate warming observed since the mid-twentieth century." (2015)8

    GSA emblem
    The Geological Society of America
    "The Geological Society of America (GSA) concurs with assessments by the National Academies of Science (2005), the National Research Council (2011), the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2013) and the U.S. Global Change Research Program (Melillo et al., 2014) that global climate has warmed in response to increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gases ... Human activities (mainly greenhouse-gas emissions) are the dominant cause of the rapid warming since the middle 1900s (IPCC, 2013)." (2015)9

    SCIENCE ACADEMIES
    International Academies: Joint Statement
    "Climate change is real. There will always be uncertainty in understanding a system as complex as the world’s climate. However there is now strong evidence that significant global warming is occurring. The evidence comes from direct measurements of rising surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures and from phenomena such as increases in average global sea levels, retreating glaciers, and changes to many physical and biological systems. It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities (IPCC 2001)." (2005, 11 international science academies)10

    UNSAS emblem
    U.S. National Academy of Sciences
    "Scientists have known for some time, from multiple lines of evidence, that humans are changing Earth’s climate, primarily through greenhouse gas emissions."11

    U.S. GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
    USGCRP emblem
    U.S. Global Change Research Program
    "Earth’s climate is now changing faster than at any point in the history of modern civilization, primarily as a result of human activities." (2018, 13 U.S. government departments and agencies)12

    INTERGOVERNMENTAL BODIES
    IPCC emblem
    Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
    “It is unequivocal that the increase of CO2, methane, and nitrous oxide in the atmosphere over the industrial era is the result of human activities and that human influence is the principal driver of many changes observed across the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, and biosphere.

    “Since systematic scientific assessments began in the 1970s, the influence of human activity on the warming of the climate system has evolved from theory to established fact.”13-17
    OTHER RESOURCES
    List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations
    The following page lists the nearly 200 worldwide scientific organizations that hold the position that climate change has been caused by human action.
    List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations - Office of Planning and Research


    Following: The closing NASA report on the Southern Hemisphere:

    Conventional wisdom holds that climate during the era of human civilization has been relatively stable, but the new study is the latest to challenge this view, by showing that New Zealand’s glaciers have gone through rapid periods of growth and decline during the current interglacial period known as the Holocene.

    “New Zealand’s mountain glaciers have fluctuated frequently over the last 7,000 years and glacial advances have become slightly smaller through time,” said lead author Joerg Schaefer, a geochemist at Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. “This pattern differs in important ways from the northern hemisphere glaciers. The door is open now towards a global map of Holocene glacier fluctuations and how climate variations during this period impacted human civilizations.”

    Glaciers are extremely sensitive to changes in temperature and snowfall, which makes them well suited for studying past climate. This archive has been largely untapped, however, because of the difficulty in assigning precise ages to glacier fluctuations.

    Open Journal of Applied Science Vol 9 No 5 May 2019

    (I cut to the chase and this is the summation. The address is above for full article)

    5. Results of Statistical Analysis

    Figure 2 represents the average monthly global temperature since 1880 till 2018, as compared to the long-term average of twentieth century. Though warming has not been uniform across the planet, the upward trend in the globally averaged temperature shows that more areas are warming than cooling, specifically after 1980. According to the international State of the Climate in 2017 report, it was observed that since 1901, the planet’s surface has warmed by 0.7˚ - 0.9˚ Celsius (1.3˚ - 1.6˚ Fahrenheit) per century, but the rate of warming has nearly doubled since 1975 to 1.5˚ - 1.8˚ Celsius (2.7˚ - 3.2˚ Fahrenheit) per century.

    Figure 3 depicts the mean monthly temperature anomalies of Northern and Southern Hemispheres from 1880 to 2018. If we compare the two series, we can observe that the northern series is more volatile with increasing trend than the southern series. The trend is evident from 1980 in northern and from 1960 in the southern hemisphere. The larger values of temperature anomalies in the Northern hemisphere may be due to the fact that it comprises of more land areas (represented by green color), whereas the southern hemisphere has more ocean/sea areas (represented by blue color). The ocean temperatures increase more slowly.

    NASA is The North America Space Agency and the governing body of all US national and space activities and also issues worldwide reports on the state of the earth as a whole.


    Cheers, don't worry, it won't effect us, just our grandchildren and their kids etc. etc.: Rodneycool:

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  9. #25
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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Johnno, Re Twigy Forest and the like, remember "All pigs end up in the slaughterhouse."

    As I have said, I had a position that paid me in the mid six figures (In the 1980s). I flew in the Concord, stayed at the Savoy in London and dined in Maxim's of Paris. I could have stayed and worked until I was 70 or more and been a multi-millionaire, I figured all I wanted was enough money to live a normal life without working. My wife was of the same opinion, as I have said, we quit the working world when I was 46-47, my wife 34-35. I'm 86 now. And we traveled the world for years, before settling down. I think I have and am having a happier life than Twigy, If he was to think he is happier, who cares, I don't.

    Cheers, Rodney

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  11. #26
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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Rodders, thanks for the posting.
    One point in most of them, the words of 'possibility' that man is to blame.

    Well according to the news today the world is now emitting more Co2 than before Covid hit.
    Not good news for some, and this is before China goes back into full swing.

    Many of the contrasts in the posting speak of temperatures and conditions in the 1800's, a time when recordings were not so good.

    As you know we have had some odd weather here in Oz of late, such that the climate zealots claim it is all climate change.
    Bush fires are one that comes to mind as each year we suffer them in some part of which you know is in a country about 65% desert.
    But read the diary of James Cook when he claimed Oz for the Crown in 1770, he speaks of large parts of land on fire, nothing new here.

    It may well be that the atmosphere may contain additional parts of Co2, though as heavier than air fail to see how it gets there, but the weather patterns are not new, we have seen them all before here in Oz at least.
    Remember without Co2 we get no oxygen.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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  13. #27
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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Many of those posting Rodders speak of increases in global temperatures.
    Modern science has come along way since the end of WW2, but the information supplied to the public tells us the planet is warming, or is it climate change?
    Take your pick.
    But there is never details given of how such changes are measured and from what point do they begin?

    One comment from many is how do we know this is correct, who will get the most from this?

    Back in the 60's we were told to prepare for an ice age thta would begin in the early 70's and go on for many years! Must have lost it's way.

    Have been to Sweden, Norway, Finland and Iceland over the past few years.
    Have seen summer conditions in all those countries where snow and ice still in abundance on low hills and mountains.
    Most of the locals do not appear worried by all the talk of climate etc.

    Prior to 1905 Norway and Sweden were one country, about 2500 years ago the southern half had a Mediterranean style climate, but according to scientists over a period of some 800 or so years it changed to what it is now, sub arctic.
    Given that to be the case changes will not eventuate over night as some claim when they speak of 2050 .
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Johnno.

    The list of responders favorable to the threat of global warming that I submitted are all reputable agencies on not just an opinion of mine. I have searched to find reputed experts that refute the claim of global warning and man's responsibility. I would appreciate it if you could send me the name of respected experts of agencies that offer facts, not opinions, against global warning. I cannot find them. I am a seeker of facts and not trying to trick you into anything, all I can find are individuals unrelated to climate, that offer baseless claims without facts backing them up. Scientists can tell seasonal history as to what happened to ice masses and rock formation by the thousands of years, by tree rings by centuries, etc. etc. not only by weather charts since the late 1800s, though they are used too.

    Cheers, Rodders

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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Rod.
    We are now in a season of conspiracies, where every man has a theory as to what is happening or going to happen. Yesterday a river in Victoria rose 8 meters in so many hours, the rain in Aus has been coming down now for months. I love this sunburnt country, but this morning its blooding freezing. I only hope that the so called brains meeting in South East Asia right now can come up with a plan something better than Black Adder.
    Des
    R510868
    Lest We Forget

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  19. #30
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    Default Re: Two kitchens Milliband

    Rodders, I respect your comments and your diligence in sourcing the info.
    Have you ever read any from Judith curry, puts a bit of a new light on it.

    Here in Oz back in about 1999 we had a very poor snow season, a local climatologist by the name of Cleary said that by 2010
    we would never see snow on the Victorian alps again. Since then the snow fall has increased each year to the point that this year we had the biggest ever dump recorded.
    He also claimed that sea levels around Oz, and only Oz would rise by some 3 meters. Little wonder that with such comments many scoff at him.

    China is to suggest to the current group in Cairo for the climate meeting that the proposed reducing warming by 1.5 degrees be removed.
    They claim it is irrelevant to the case. There are a number of other countries who agree with that.

    Forrest's around the world have over the last ten years according to one report grown at a rate not seen before, all to do with additional Co2 in the atmosphere it is claimed.
    A goad thing as it removes Co2 and adds additional oxygen according to one source.

    You have no doubt read about the floods here in Oz now, all taking place on what are natural flood plains.
    Over the years local councils have allowed properties to be built on them little wonder we have so many problems.
    But such floods have been going on long before the first fleet of 1778.
    State gov is now buying back some of the land and declaring such places will never again be used to build on.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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