Was I a petty officer?

[j.sabourn]

#10 who mentioned oil and water , I know engineers at sea who started off as fishing hand on trawlers and finished up as chief engineer on same and nobody queried their pedigree . It seems to me all those. Who do have something in their own make up who push such forward with such have a problem of their own making. Oil and water was a legacy left to us from our predecessors and closed a long time ago to proper seamen . JS

[happy daze john in oz]

John, from memory most of the skippers with UCL in the early 60's were al ex RN.
I knew about the skipper/chief officer but do not recall ever being on a ship where that occured.
As to officers on liners, most deck would attend the first class dinning saloon dressed up like fighting cocks, engineers did attend at times but were a little less obvious.
As officers steward I preferred engine to deck, they were a bit more realistic in their thinking, deck a little pompous at times.

[Jim R Christie]

John, from memory most of the skippers with UCL in the early 60's were al ex RN.
I knew about the skipper/chief officer but do not recall ever being on a ship where that occured.
As to officers on liners, most deck would attend the first class dinning saloon dressed up like fighting cocks, engineers did attend at times but were a little less obvious.
As officers steward I preferred engine to deck, they were a bit more realistic in their thinking, deck a little pompous at times.

UCL Masters would nearly all be RNR rather than ex RN, hence many of the ships wore a blue ensign rather than a red. That was only permissible if the Master actively held an RNR commission (or was retired from the same) plus a certain number of the crew were also RNR - 25% is the number I have in my head.
Joining the RNR was effectively a prerequisite of attending the likes of the posher pre-sea training schools e.g. Worcester, Conway etc. where the cadets attending would also join the RNR as midshipmen.
It was generally those schools that most of the liner companies traditionally drew their officers from, hence blue ensigns were generally far more common in passenger ships than run of the mill cargo ships.
The "only officer onboard was the R/O" argument always makes me laugh, as specifically what made them an "Officer"? After all they had no piece of paper declaring them to be such; just like the mates and engineers they held a certificate of competency, in their case a PMG class 1 or 2.

[cappy]

John, from memory most of the skippers with UCL in the early 60's were al ex RN.
I knew about the skipper/chief officer but do not recall ever being on a ship where that occured.
As to officers on liners, most deck would attend the first class dinning saloon dressed up like fighting cocks, engineers did attend at times but were a little less obvious.
As officers steward I preferred engine to deck, they were a bit more realistic in their thinking, deck a little pompous at times.

Always find the term skipper a bit strange when reffering to ships masters ...im sure in shields the skipper may be a trawler master or a ferry master ...but the master was always known as the old man on any vessel i sailed on....except sailing yachts or cabin cruisers where the term skipper appeared more fitting......just my view.....R683532

[James Curry]

You mention oil&water is a thing of the past. The last 20 odd years I spent as a service technician working for MAK/Wartsila. Attending vessels of all type and working with crews from all over the world joining ships anywhere. Oil&water was still very much alive. Someone mentioned shipwright and also a Junior engineer. A con job by the owners, the chippie got paid overtime the junior eng did not, or at least I never got paid overtime, got plenty of overtime. I served a 5 year apprenticeship and moved around a lot of the yard spending 2 years in the engine shop ,2 years in the plumbers shop, even did a spell in the drawing office. While I was at sea I never made a thunder box though. I did take tank soundings as did the chippie.
I must dig out my indentureship papers and see what my actual trade description was. I do remember doing 3 nights a week at night school for 5 years and coming away with an HND. Lairds were prepared to sponsor me at Byrom St college to to study ship design and marine engineering, sadly Lairds were heading into liquidation so I literally jumped ship before taking up the offer. I used to find it amusing with Deck & Engine cadets. A lot of deck cadets thought they were very clever lads,some were, but the usual put down from the engine cadets was, just think if you had an extra O level you could have become an engineer. Some engine cadets certainly did choose the wrong trade. Drop out rates for cadets was quite high.

I believethe first electricans were actually time served plumbers.

[cappy]

You mention oil&water is a thing of the past.
I must dig out my indentureship papers and see what my actual trade description was.Some engine cadets certainly did choose the wrong trade. Drop out rates for cadets was quite high.

I believethe first electricans were actually time served plumbers.

WELL james thats interesting but what name would be on your indentures ....EH....LOL ...cappy R683532

[Tony Taylor]

You mention oil&water is a thing of the past. The last 20 odd years I spent as a service technician working for MAK/Wartsila.
. Some engine cadets certainly did choose the wrong trade. Drop out rates for cadets was quite high.

I believethe first electricans were actually time served plumbers.

I was trained under the alternative scheme and served 5 years apprenticeship, recognised by the TUC. I was one of the last as shortly after I finished my time the whole training requirement was revised and shortened to three years, subsequent to that it was not recognised by the TUC and from thereon trainee engineers were known as cadets.

[James Curry]

That would be the name I was born with Cappy.

[cappy]

That would be the name I was born with Cappy.

Ah not in the foriegn legion then sacre bleu.....cappy

[Keith Tindell]

In my time at sea i don't recall anyone being called* Sir*, it was always by their rank, maybe they were called* Sir* on passenger ships, but not on smaller ships. I remember vaguely a member on this site, as a very new junior officer, , not sure what ship, but telling an AB to call him Sir, and shipping a bunch of fives, so apart from uniforms it did not make too much difference when i was a t sea. The 1st mate was always Mr Mate, 2nd and 3rd by that name.