Different lines

[J Gowers]

#27 JS You are referring to anchored rigs or jack ups there are plenty of rigs with full marine crews such Drill ships and DP semi-submersibles (both of these types of rigs do not anchor up but stay on location using Dynamic Poitioning) , my point was that everyone worked together under similar conditons with no officer class or crew class just all rig workers. On the anchored semis I worked on we had most of the marine tickets required when moving between locations this was a company preference when hiring crew to ensure there were so many tickets onboard some other companies as you say would bring in a Captain or and crew to assist moving. Below are a couple of photos of a laid up anchored semi and a drill ship.

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[j.sabourn]

#30 I find the reasoning I fail to understand the reasoning about your supt. If that was what he was referring to having to have experience for an ore carrier . I had just got my masters cert at the end of 1963 and was looking for time at home so went to the federation to try and get a job on the coast , even an ABs job was suitable I was told that would not be allowed because the MNAOA would not have it as the mates and master on any ship would not want a qualified officer in the crews quarters as would know too much of what went on and may pass on too much .? or words to that effect. Instead they said they had Dalglieshes supt.was looking for someone. Dalgliesh was the office above the BSF. At Watergate Buildings on the Quayside Newcastle and apparently they just stamped on the deck if they wanted someone. They offered the mates job on the. pennyworth an ore carrier, I didn’t even know what an ore carrier was . The super said nothing to it just go down to Middlesbrough and have a look around and come back tomorrow and we’ll discuss it. Off I went , the master there I had been 2 mate with him as mate when in Runcimans so the beer came out and he signed me on a couple of hours later . Ore carriers were I would of thought the easiest ships to load and discharge in the MN if purpose built . The longest trip in BISCO was 6 weeks was as good as the coast for getting home if had to . As Cappy says that was the big attraction short trips in sight of home plenty of overtime there were people on those ships who would never leave them , it was one ore carrier to the next ore carrier. As I said the hardest job as mate was filling in the overtime sheets and finding an excuse for the large amounts that were paid. JS.

[j.sabourn]

I was never on a rig in uk waters only Australia . And no rig out here moved without a marine crew. Sometimes on the semisubmersibles the barge master would be a master Mariner for the shift but he had to have qualified seafarers for shifting and the numbers all depended on the length of tow distance and time it would take.the 11 years I worked out here everything went through the maritime unions they held the whip hand. An American rig coming out here even the OIM was allowed only 12 weeks and had to leave after that and be replaced this applied to all the people on the rig. Anything floating was considered a vessel when it was not at anchor ,made fast to the shore or aground ,first rule in shipping and still is I think. Your DP ships I was master on the British Magnus for a couple of trips but was not allowed to use the DP because I never had a certificate , at my time they were hard to get and expensive , but you could double your wages if you had. Some of the DP operators I saw that was the only qualification they had , but they could command more salary than the master at that time. Cheers JS.

[J Gowers]

JS I think everywhere else in the World and I worked in a lot of different countries we only had to abide by the safe manning certificate issued by the Flag State and as you know this states the number of the various qualified guys with the appropriate ticket you had onboard. Most of the semi barge masters I worked with in the North Sea and abroad were master mariners but not all and if so you would get a guy on called a rig mover and he would have a master mariners ticket.

On the DP drillships I was on the Captain, 1st mate, 2nd and the DP operators had a DP certs they would not have got the job without one as they had to stand in for the DP operators if they were going for meals, toilet or any other eventuallity.

[j.sabourn]

Between 1990 and 2000 you had the added burden of being able to get into a closed shop. I was lucky .There were 3 Maritime unions as regards off shore , the seaman’s Union ,the Engineers Union . And the Guild the mates and masters union. If you were not a member you didn’t work in Australia.There was a catering union as well but as supply vessels didn’t carry cooks saw very little of them. A lot of mockery is made of the unions and every chance the media gets it uses and magnifies every bit of bad features they may have had . However that is where the conditions of service came from and without you would be back in Nelson’s era or the UK stand by boats of earlier years in the UK. No industrialist be he shipowner or newspapers wants to see and that includes most forms of government , they fear them only because they stop them having complete control over their own workers .Organised labour has the power to bankrupt business ‘s and bring down governments . That is the way they are seen and word of that is always there in whatever periodical one reads . Today we live in a near enough controlling media as regards news , or so they think. Cheers JS
Conditions of entry into a closed shop , you had to be a citizen or a landed resident of that country , hold Australian work permits and qualifications and be acceptable to that union. At that time to emigrate here you went through a points system 90 points being the criteria I managed to get 91 because I had family living here ,
Another was your trade or profession they had to require what you did. So a motor mechanic could get more points than a learned professor of music. It would have been unheard of the amount of illegal and the flotsam of
The world getting in , as it is today. Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

I think this might be straying a bit from the original title of this post ,but is still in the same theme park , covering a bit more than whatever was originally asked for . #34 I too have worked for many foreign owners under various flags of convenience, however I took the view a ship is a ship is a ship no matter what flag.Every flag of convenience can be just that , a lowering of costs . The likes of Panama , Bermuda, Bahamas, and many others some with higher and some with lower standards of certification than others . One of the largest outlays to a shipowner is Insurance of vessel, crew, cargo, and depending on crews certification was one of the riding concerns of what those premiums were. British certification at one time was the highest ranking so was sought after in most foreign flagged vessels. I also believe when someone accepts a job as such you have every right to sell that certificate as well as yourself to the highest bidder , especially when there is no other person/s to look after your interests . Cheers JS

[J Gowers]

#35 this is definatly off subject, In the 70s I was joining a ship in Nagoya I had a whole day a night in a hotel then joining the ship the next day. So once I had booked in to the hotel I did what any other Jolly Jack tar would do and set off to find the nearest bar. On entering the bar I met some Auzzie seamen and started chatting to them telling them I was joining a ship the next day they bought me a beer, so I tried to recipricate, but they would not let me their exact words were, "your wages are crap in the British Merchant Navy so we will buy your beer", and they did great blokes.

[j.sabourn]

#37 The usual thing when I first was employed out here was that an Australian crew taking a ship back to the likes of Singapore had 3 days R and R , previous to 1991 it had been 4 . I can’t say what the conditions were in the 70s maybe Des will know. This 3 days off was spent in a first class hotel all expenses paid and in addition you were given $100 (Australian) spending money a day. Your leave did not start until you entered your home , think the leave was 1.153 days off for 1 day on. However that shortly changed for 1 for 1. And dont think the r and r exists today.

This was offshore agreements but would be similar to other trading vessels I imagine . So they were probably very correct in what they said. I did similar when working for a Canadian company when a Bunch of us were going ashore in Trinidad we picked up this apprentice coming ashore off a Harrison ship and he never had to put his hand in his pocket. We were paid every month on the ship in US dollars . This was in 1967, I hope this gave that young fellow the urge to carry on ,and saw there was another life outside the British shipowner, he must have been talking about it months after. Cheers JS....

[j.sabourn]

#38. PS Think he may have learned to Limbo Dance that night also. Who knows he may even be on this site. Must be retired by now also. JS

[Louis the fly]

I have been thinking of good and bad shipping companies I have sailed with.
Booker's; Clean modern ships with Thomson derricks, single berth accommodation while other ships were two. Great run, Liverpool, Barbados, Virgin Islands, Georgetown Guyana to load bulk sugar.

Maersk; First question asked "Where is your local airport". No waiting on rail platforms for a long journey home. Excellent food and cabins with bathroom. Happy ships with everyone working and playing together.

The next one may surprise some of you. Chapmans; I am including this not because of the ship but the most enjoyable trip I have ever done, 11 months of fun and laughter, sorry when it ended.

The worst company Blue Star; Lousy accommodation and food, totally unnecessary petty bullshit. This is my personal opinion many would disagree, going back trip after trip. There were far better companies on the Aus. Kiwi run. Port Line for instance.