M S Vives

[Robert George Young]

12 4 62
13 5 62

Endorsement not required for ability and general conduct
Why would that have been ?
Thank you

[j.sabourn]

That was only put in a discharge book on the request of the owner of the book . So one would have to ask the owner why. Maybe he already knew the alternative and chose that instead , only the owner of the book will know and would be able to answer that. JS .

[Robert George Young]

Doesn’t sound too good though JS eh?

[j.sabourn]

If don’t know always give them the benefit of the doubt. JS

[Graham Shaw]

Hello Robert. You may recognise my name as being one of the regular members here who has supplied photos and info about your father's merchant ships.I have been re-reading some of your other posts re your father,and your synopsis of your series of books "One Way Ticket" in which you are attempting to tell his story -a novel but based on the true life of your Dad. My personal opinion about this ,and I stress only my 'personal opinion' is it wouldn't work for me, but would probably do so for others.This is just because ,with me being Aspergic,i.e. on the high functioning lesser spectrum of Autism,it is likely that I would find difficulty in separating your fictional story from any 'true' details about your father's actual life story.To give you an example for me and others like me,the worst types of drama on TV these days are ones which jump backwards and forwards very quickly as flashbacks to a different period and place or even to a younger character.My family who are not Aspergic often find that mind-boggling,so imagine how it is for me ! That said,your father seemed to be tortured by demons and had a sad end.You say it stemmed back from thirty years earlier,when of course he was Merchant Navy,but could it not have stemmed from even earlier during the 2nd World War in his Royal Navy time?
I was looking at your Facebook link.Yes your Dad was an AB on very many ships,but it is noticeable from pages 17/18 of his Discharge Book that of the vessels mentioned,he only served about a month on each,e.g Syrian Prince 27/3/58-18/5/58;Manchester Spinner 12/8/60-9/9/60;Gloxinia 14/9/60-9/10/60;Gloxinia(again)13/10/6020/11/60;Marian M.21/11/60 -?;Westwood 28/11/60.
Your latest post re Vives in which you queried the General Conduct entry not being marked was another one in which he served exactly one month in 1962.
As you have said alcohol troubled your father in his later years and to me it looks like he was one of those seafarers who was alcoholic and managed to survive their careers.Undoubtedly they always got VG for Ability,but then when it came to General Conduct they usually got a DR-Decline to Report,usually because their general conduct was a 'pi55head',a real pain in the' a55.'I see he was given one on the Syrian Prince.
The intervals between each ship of about a month is another indication of an alcoholic seafarer-go on leave,and come back when the money runs out.
A terrible way to exist if you are alcoholic with a family and certainly a danger and a liability aboard ship and even though their ability as a seaman could be very good,their general conduct to all on board was not,hence most captains would not want them back again.
I think you may recognise the pattern I have outlined above and sincerely hope your family didn't suffer too much.
I really wish you success in your new book. Your synopsis looks good.
Graham Shaw

[j.sabourn]

Graham is quite right Robert. Alcohol can be and was a hazardous material to a lot of seafarers as well as other professions at various times. In ones journey through life. Sometimes it is a severe medical problem and other times not so. Apart from wartime war dramas there is really no excuse for other than medical and personal lifestyle hitches in ones life.putting it bluntly you can’t make a purse out of a sows ear. I the same as others here will have no doubt come across this problem but rather than face it as such joke about it rather than face the truth.Myself during nearly 50 years at sea have met it a few times, but rather than end a mans livlihood would rather try and reform the same . Whether successful or not remains to be seen as they usually finished up as someone else’s albatross. After being in the doldrums in one stage of my life, I hit the bottle on purpose whilst at home to try and kill nightmares but it didn’t work for me, the only one way I found was to return to the place of the nightmares and face up to them. Every person is different and reacts in different ways , so don’t just write your old man off. Your mentioned ENRs do show that he had spirit in his own mind , when maybe standing there
being rebuked and probably saying stick the ship up your jacksy , I don’t want your remarks. But again this is only one guess on my part. You yourself in your own memory banks are the only one with the knowledge to
berate your father, unless someone else steps forward who sailed with him and knows different. Cheers JS
PS . The worse ones to sail with I found were the ex alchies who were always trying to reform anyone having a beer. The old saying There is none so pure as the purified springs to mind. JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Robert.
On my first ship there were two ABs named French and English who had sailed together during the 2nd world war, they refused to have DRs put in their book, and I didn't blame them after what they had been through. The Captain a very good person who had been there and done it agreed.
Des

[j.sabourn]

Two appropriate names Des , did they used to fight over the mustard ? JS

[happy daze john in oz]

Alcoholism at sea was a problem for many.
Sailed with a head chef on BP that was willing to sell his knives for the ,money to buy grog.

On the Windsor a Senior First officer who had it bad, would do any thing for grog but was able to hold it well so it never showed.
Not sure if he eventually went to AA but did get to the rank of skipper in the end.

[Robert George Young]

That is brilliant

Thank you
The story about my dad is true
The story about Nora (my Aunt Peggy) is true

Other stories are fiction but hopefully reflect the times.
I think the writers main thing about my dad was PTSD brought about by his WW2 experiences.

I’m not trying to sell the books
For me this exercise has been cathartic.
I thought he was just an old drunk
But after the research I’ve done he fought for freedom for full duration of the war and
27 years in the merchant navy he probably did some good there as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you
What an interest observation