Costa Concordia

[Des Taff Jenkins]

John.
We used to load timber in Tauranga many times, the mainly Maoris wharfies were not the fastest workers, but this day the whistle went for Dinner just as they were lowering a load, they raced the load down, it hit a billet at the bottom, it flew across the hold and hit a bloke climbing the ladder, he fell and died. The moral here is, the beer is always waiting late or not.
Des

[Ivan Cloherty]

In NZ there area couple of ports where timber is loaded, have watched the process and it looks a bit slow.

Got talking to one guy who said consideration was being given to some form of container for them rather than just on the deck.

Loading timber whether loose or in bundles is one cargo were extreme care is needed and what may appear slow is just being prudent. Loading timber in containers on deck would certainly send the cost up at the builders yards, each empty container weighs the same as two bundles of sawn timber, so a lot of timber would be shut out, plus the cost of stuffing and unstuffing the loads into/from the container. One thing is for sure during the cost analysis was the cost of seamen's lives was never factored into the equation. However as seamen our job was to ensure that vessel, cargo and crew were transported from A to B regardless of the nature of the cargo or weather and that is what we tried to do and did do in the main.

[cappy]

carrying timber from vancouver ...new wesminster etc i always recall the smell from the timber ...specially as the weather warmed down to oz like sleeping in a forrest miles and miles from land....happy days R683532

[Ivan Cloherty]

carrying timber from vancouver ...new wesminster etc i always recall the smell from the timber ...specially as the weather warmed down to oz like sleeping in a forrest miles and miles from land....happy days R683532

Certainly a sweeter smell than cow hides or guano cappy! a lot of us have carried timber cargoes and as navigators we ensured we were never found in a situation which required sudden or hard helm movements

[happy daze john in oz]

Ivan, I can see your point, but as the guy said there has to be a better way to load timber.

As to prices, gone mad here due to timber shortage, much brought about by our premier who has shut two timber mills down.

A 2.4 barge board used at the bottom of fences was $ 6, then it went to $8, now is at $11 each,

[j.sabourn]

Whatever reasons and theories regarding the carriage of timber deck cargoes they are or were considered important enough to warrant their own set of marks plimsol wise . JS

[corrientes]

John, I have been mulling over your post here and indeed share your views to a degree. Although absolutely nothing to do with the Costa Concordia, I decided put the isue to someone who has been on this very job for almost 30 years. My son is the Director of Operations (Planning/Scheduling etc) for Hapag Lloyd in North America and Canada. He is understandably a very busy guy and it has taken a few days for his response to filter back. I attach below his comments which are purely for your ( and maybe others) general info., and not a topic I really wish to discuss. There is clearly a lot more going on out there than we "older mariners" realise and is not simply a case of sticking boxes on board wherever they fit. Hope you find it of some interest. Cheers.

One major problem with containers is knowing what is in there”

Somewhat true. Dangerous goods cargo - we have a “cargo patrol’ department that looks for inconsistencies, warning trigger points/ cargo descriptions, contents, inconsistent chemical names etc, and has all sorts of automated cross checking, but that is for dangerous good only, which are usually more specific with contents anyway. This also goes after general checking of what should have been declared as dangerous goods and was not in the first place (personal vehicles a common one).

US Customs, and other govt agencies in US and similar organizations in other countries, have various internal checks, triggers, cargo profiling that leads to selected container checks on top of the random inspections they do.

Ultimately, despite more efforts to counter same, false manifesting/description of cargo is a global issue.

Not sure if writer refers to a ship or a container – so:-


With reference to a Container - Within a “less than full container load” ie: multiple cargoes for different customers in the same container, absolutely agree, although you would hope an experienced container freight station (CFS or stuffing warehouse) would be aware of the dangers of such and load the container accordingly. Can also be an issue if heavy cargo is not secured/blocked and braced correctly and moves within the unit, upsetting the balance, especially in a higher tier ondeck or once being loaded/unloaded with a container crane spreader.

With reference to a Ship – yes cntrs loaded by Port of discharge (destination usually more related to final destination which often far from ports these days) at each port of loading and the general sequence of a voyage rotation. It also accounts for dangerous cargo segregation, power supply to reefer containers or heated tanks, special cargo requirements like animal hides (ondeck), latex (away from heated fuel tanks) etc.
All loading conditions provided to terminal/port operators are verified for proper weight distribution to allow for various stability measures (bending, torsion, shear moments) as well as GM, trim etc. The cntr weights are also stowed to meet the onboard cargo securing requirements (lashing limits both under and ondeck). Weight distribution is part of a mix of multiple factors accounted for by vessel planners, which also includes port of discharge, and this can be challenging, but safety comes first, and requires not only the Carrier planners and terminal/port planners to meet safe stowage requirements, but also has to be shared with and agreed to by the Ship command (usually Chief mate in the cargo office these days), prior to completion of loading, and generally prior to start of loading, so loading plans does not have to be reworked during ops incurring more cost and time in already tight schedules. Planners try to minimize the amount of ballasting/de-ballasting required by the ships, especially as some may not be able to de-ballast in foreign waters unless there is an onboard treatment process or exchanged in the deep ocean with ‘Clean’ ballast water, but the officers do have to do same to some degree in multiple ports on a rotation to counter the port sequence/weight distribution challenges.

[Michael Chamberlain]

European Masters who sink ships, turn them over, people get killed.
Result is a Jail Sentence.
British Masters - slap on the wrist at best.

[Ivan Cloherty]

European Masters who sink ships, turn them over, people get killed.
Result is a Jail Sentence.
British Masters - slap on the wrist at best.

It may be prudent to await the results of any inquiry, unless you have insider knowledge of course, just an observation

[j.sabourn]

#28 The law is the law and it varies country to country . I wouldn’t say a slap on the wrist is in line with losing your means of livelihood for the 2 mate falling asleep on watch. British courts of enquiry I would put up against any foreign one. Especially in shipping.The law on corporate manslaughter differs country by country. JS