The royal navy navigation way

[Nicholas Messinger]

I read this with real interest......

My normal day job was First Officer of P&O's ss Chusan.....leaving the ship in the Summer of 1972 for nuclear submarine training, as a Lieutenant List One RNR, at RNC Greenwich.

Having completed nuclear submarine training, the SSN simulator and renewing my submarine escape training, I joined the hunter killer submarine HMS Valiant at Devonport, where, having stowed my gear and checked out my bunk - lashed to a Tigerfish torpedo in the fore ends, my first job was to take the boat out, down the winding waterway that led to the deep blue sea beyond.

Checking for a pilot, there was none - the boat was Devonport based and had no need for a pilot.

Jotting down a few navigation marks in my notebook, I joined the Captain and Executive Officer on the bridge, and, under nuclear power, we made our way downstream.

After a week or so, coming and going, I moved into the officer's bunk space, and left behind the dulcet tones of the 2001 sonar, which always sounded like it was playing Three Blind Mice, and got used to the two on four off watch routine.

Bearing in mind I was just 28, and the same age as my previous three captains in conventional boats, I was in awe of their supreme confidence and amazing ability to navigate in three dimensions. Nothing in my Mates and Masters FG courses was on a par with the expertise of a thoroughly trained RN Navigator - plus I got the chance to play with inertial navigation, transit sat and Omega too!

Years later, lecturing at HMS Dryad in 1981, I was amazed at the complete ignorance of RN officers in the ways of the Merchant Navy - many of whom assumed merchant ships always had an OOW, signalman, lookouts, helmsman and 'snotty' on the bridge at all times! Back at HMS Dolphin, teaching submariners how to attack merchant ships - estimating speed and draft etc also had its moments!
Operation Corporate in 1982 - the Falklands War - did a great deal for RN/MN liaison - and as the Task Force Commander's Ships Taken Up From Trade MN Liaison Officer, I witnessed at first hand the new respect and gratitude the RN had for the MN - without whom, the Falkland Islands would, undoubtedly, still be flying the Argentine flag.

Unfortunately, today, merchant seafaring is very close to becoming a Third World occupation, and with the near demise of the UK merchant fleet, the friendly rivalry that once existed between RN and MN officers and crews, is in danger of becoming a memory.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Guess you had a few receptions in ports, crew put up in hotels after long tours etc.
Cocktails on arrival in the conning tower, usually with the red dive light, what was
the beer served in the mess? something like Courage triple XXX. About three times
the strength of a shore boozer pint. See you mentioned Tigerfish, loved one day
a lovely blonde visitor came up with: I know you are nuclear powered, sorry we are
not at liberty to discuss that, bloke I kipped with last night said you are, anyway I
wanted to ask if you were nuclear armed: sorry we are not at liberty to discuss that:

Well you have Tigerfish, did he tell you that as well?

No it is written on the torpedo: T I G E R F I S H.

Time to go home said Zebedee or was it Dylan.

K.

.

[Gordon Gray]

It used to be called a stone frigate.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Without going back, not certain which post you refer to: Informally, a stone frigate is a naval establishment on land. The term has its origin in Britain's Royal Navy after its use of Diamond Rock, an island off Martinique, as a 'sloop of war' to harass the French in 1803–04 (the Royal Navy was prohibited from ruling over land, so the land was commissioned as a ship).

Yes, RN shore establishments are referred to as stone frigates & named after RN Ships.

K.

.

[j.sabourn]

#22 You are close to the truth Bob the White ensign does in most cases make the use of a pilot not mandatory in British ports. Also the tonnage of a merchant vessel is usually the deciding factor of the mandatory factor in most ports of the world for merchant ships. In Australia the Pilotage exemption is or was widely used when necessary. I held exemptions for Dampier and and a few more ports, I never got round to Darwin for an exemption but still never took a pilot which meant a day being examined by the Harbour Master which the company were not willing to pay extra. So put me back working out of Dampier. I never took a pilot in Singapore either as ship came in below I think it was a 1000 GRT limit. It was up to the master in a lot of cases whether he used a pilot or not. The only place in the UK I never used a pilot was Lerwick where I got 80 quid half the fee, which I put behind the bar in the nearest boozer. Berthing a ship without linesmen involves everyone. The Company said they were going to include the pilotage fee on to my salary for tax reasons, I said you do that and I take a pilot , they backed down and left it as cash in hand.....

JS

[happy daze john in oz]

After WW2 there were a number of RN captains and officers who went Merchant Nay.
Sailed with about four ex RN skippers who had become MN skippers.
Most were decent sorts of guys.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Lewis.
When I was with the Union Steam in NZ we never had to pick up a pilot that I can remember, probably running back and forth across the Tasman every month they didn't need to. But I can't say whether they had to do some time in piloting in Aus and NZ.
Des

[j.sabourn]

To be a barrier Reef pilot Des you had to do actual seatime passage wise inside the reef to attain a licence , forget how many months / years. Usually for ports on the Ozzie coast the likes of Eden was 3 in and out. But really depended on the. Harbour Master. Dampier I did one out , I was in and out of Darwin about 6 times , then they had a new harbour master and he wanted me to spend a day in the office to get the official script. Their method of testing your knowledge was given you a blank chart of the harbour. And you had to fill in the lights and buoys and depths of water especially alongside the quays. Etc. etc. Cheers JS

Now the likes of Aberdeen was mandatory for a pilot going in and coming out whether the same today I don’t know. But offshore people made hundreds of passages in and out. And yet to me doing a shift berth to berth in the port itself was just as if not more so hazhardous, and only had to get permission from the port control to do without a pilot as not necessary. Was like musical ships ( not chairs ) at times. JS...

[Colin Wood]

Hi John, when I was assistant hm and pilot Darwin 1970-1975, it was 3 in and out and then sit blankchart.

[j.sabourn]

#31 Aberdeen. For example imagine 4 ships lying abreast of each other alongside a Quay and the quayside vessel wants out to go to another Quay where another 4 ships are in the same order . That means 8 vessels on the move in a very small area at the same time. This could happen many times in the day. Going in and out of the Port was no hardship in comparison . JS

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#32.. Thanks Colin. JS