The royal navy navigation way

[Ivan Cloherty]

#12 Things never change it seems, the average yachty on the Solent never seems to understand that we deep draughted vessels didn't have the luxury of being able to alter course to go outside our channel. We rigged hoses port and starboard facing outboard on the foc'le and ran them at fire pressure, that kept them clear, as didn't like getting wet

[j.sabourn]

When talking about the R.N. One is talking about one of the armed forces. Like the army and Air Force , only a very small percentage of these community’s are involved in what they are recognised to be able to do e.g. the army very few do the actual combat ,the Air Force very few do the actual flying , and the navy very few do the actual going to sea. They are all made up generally of supporting people. The Navy However is what is being discussed . The very few who do get a wee bit of seatime in, that we have contact with are mostly the same as us but trained differently and dealt with differently disciplinary wise .They have very few ships , and in general are part time sailors through no fault of their own. When one talks about a merchant seaman , he is a total different kettle of fish , every merchant seaman goes to sea , he spends his life at sea , the sea is where he learns his trade , he has no big support team who also call themselves merchant seamen, he is it the one and only merchant seaman. Ashore he is a fish out of water .No one can compete with him as regards his seamanship skills he spends all his life doing what he does , he is a 24 , 7 day a week veteran of the salty depths. So to compare the two is almost unfair. Like the drill sergeant of the army and his saying when pointing his finger this is your rifle and this is your gun , ones for shooting the others for fun. The CPO could say to his recruits this is a ship this is your billet ashore , ones for doing your job ,the others for going home every weekend. The merchant seaman , this is your ship get on it there’s plenty more and plenty to do. That’s before of course they all disappeared . JS .
On Anzac Day out here living on a RAAF retirement village it looked very impressive to see all the miniature medals displayed very much like the Americans and I wondered how they all came about , as no one is old enough to have served during the war . I put my 3 up to show I was ex MN but consider the badge says it all and if anything said by others can point to the writing on it which says Veteran of H.M.armed forces .The same one as Ivan displays , which usually shuts them up. JS.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

I was walking down our main street when this huge bloke in a naval petty officers uniform came from behind, he said, "Mind if I walk down with you Des?" he was at school with me and we hadn't seen each other since. I was going to the local. He said' "I have just come back from Malta, where have you been lately,?" I said, "I just came back from Australia. " he said something like Harrumph, and shut up. But he was always a nice bloke, and he bought me a pint.
Des

[j.sabourn]

An actual one have said before in some post somewhere , was sitting in a bar in Milwaukee where else would anyone sit in the place where they made all the famous beers that made Milwaukee famous also . When this US coastguardsman came in and sat beside me and started talking. The US Coastguard incidentally has or had similar powers to our BOT . MOT. DTI , and now I believe our coastguard . I said to him trying to be friendly , tell me, is it true that one has to be 6 feet to join the U.S. Coastguard ? no man he said why is that ? , So if the ship sinks you can walk ashore says I. He took umbrage at this , so i left my money on the counter and made a hasty departure, he was well over 6 feet.
JS

[happy daze john in oz]

WE get the occasional ARN ship in here in Port Melbourne, they use the same quay as the cruise ships.

We were getting ready to sail as was the ARN ship.

But the harbor master must have had some thing to say as we pulled away first.

AS we moved off the quay there was a call over the ships system call from the bridge.

This is the First officer, you may have seen the war ship who also wants to leave, well we are bigger than him so he will have to wait.

There were great cheers from passengers up on deck watching the sail away, but the ARN ship did leave and passed us along the bay.

[j.sabourn]

That same Quay in Sydney I had cause to tie up there a few times on a Swires small vessel converted for survey work.The surveyors on board were always pushing me for that berth as was handy for the pubs and night life. There excuse was it was handy to receive the gear they had ordered which was the excuse for our return to port so many times. I was surprised at the cost to us at least , I put the price we paid in an earlier post which is probably more correct than this statement as now older with memory in accordance , but was about $80 a day and all the fresh water was free. Pilotage was compulsory in Sydney , but not too sure about warships , but any bad weather outside he used to get off long before you reached the Heads. Cheers JS

[Alan Briggs]

Did hear a story about the Gothic when it was the Royal Yacht en route from NZ to Australia regarding a rendezvous with the Royal Australian Navy,not sure of the full facts but apparently the navy boys on the Gothic a bit astray.

[Vincent Nolan]

Read this post, bit dismissive of merchant seamen's navigation, try taking a vlcc into port or backing down for over a mile to reach Gillingham wharf on the tees.
Rgds
J.A.
https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2021...gation_course/

"whereas a civilian sailor might bring their ship into port by glancing at navigation buoys and steering as required so they don't bump into anything, the Royal Navy plans every single turn and straight leg and speed with military precision."

It is quite disappointing to see this type of statement still being made in this era.
Exactly the same sentiments were being expressed by Instructors 50 years ago when I did an RN "Long N Course"!

Having spent 10 years in the military, 12 years in the Merchant Navy (obtaining 3 Certificates of Competency along the way) plus 23 years as a Marine Pilot in 2 major ports I have seen life from both sides.
Mutual respect was something I tried to engender when this type of 'prejudice' was encountered - on both sides.
One would hope this attitude is not prevalent generally, but just an aberration from one individual.

From my experience, I think Navigation techniques in the Military & Merchant Navies these days, particularly with the advent of ECDIS & PPU's, are not too dissimilar whilst in Pilotage Waters. Many of the practices are common to both via cross fertilisation.

Having said that, one distinct difference is the way the US Navy navigated in pilotage waters - certainly up until I retired 6 years ago.
Their Navigating Officers relied on a team of Quartermasters taking bearings & ranges to obtain fixes on a plotting table & then feed the info back to the Command & NO over the Bridge Loudspeakers.
Initially it was quite disconcerting, but after numerous pilotages involving USN Aircraft Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers, Tankers etc., one became accustomed to it.

I rarely post on this or other marine related websites, but on this occasion it struck a chord with me given the same thing was being said 50 years ago!

[j.sabourn]

I think you could say the same attitude also exists between the armed services themselves Vincent , similar to the attitude of competition and rivalry. Myself I have had occasion to also work with the navy and found no fault with the same , apart from the usual dislike of certain people which had nothing to do with the navy itself. Naval personnel are no different than any other personnel . As said their training is to different levels than others to achieve what the navy wants to achieve, which do not correspond with mercantile targets in a lot of incidents. The biggest thing they have in common is that both go to sea that is the common denominator but both for different reasons. The biggest difference is that merchant seaman go to sea more often. That is not a problem just another excuse to cast aspersions I suppose if that way inclined . One of the best shiphandlers I sailed with was an ex RAF man out of the Air Sea Rescue Service , who would probably put a lot of seaman both MN and RN officers to shame. As regards other aspects of shipping he wasn’t too knowledgeable Cheers JS

[bob gatton]

Read this post, bit dismissive of merchant seamen's navigation, try taking a vlcc into port or backing down for over a mile to reach Gillingham wharf on the tees.
Rgds
J.A.
https://www.theregister.com/AMP/2021...gation_course/

The R.N. has always been a bit sniffy about Merchant Navy Officers. On one occasion I was told by one of the RN’s finest. “ Merchant Officers are not proper officers, but more like senior NCO’s!”. To be fair on harbour entry most commercial vessels take a local pilot, whereas warships almost never do.