Interesting for the navigators

[Keith Tindell]

Although not a navigator at sea, have always been interested in the art, and took my RYA Yachtmasters when i had a sail boat. This article was on the BBC site yesterday, and sets some interesting facts, kt


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...itics-57440787

[Doc Vernon]

Although Thanked KT the page will not open for me ??
Cheers


What was it about please???

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[Keith Tindell]

Strange that Doc, its an article by the first sea Lord here in UK, and express his worries that the Sat nav system can be, and has been hacked. The effect on all shipping would be a big problem. Apparently a british ship was fed false Sat Nav info by Iran, and lead into Iranian waters etc. Will see if others can download, if not will have another go, kt

[Ivan Cloherty]

Hope he hasn't just discovered the fact that GPS systems can be hacked, as this has been going on for years to MN vessels in that area. I suspect this is an excuse for poor navigation by those responsible, even in the 1960's our radars (which are not subject to hacking) could pick up land at 40 miles, and as I have read in many maritime journals the RN has navigation radars capable of detecting landfall at 120 miles, so there is no need for any competent navigator to 'stray' into Iranian waters.

After two collisions in the same year (about five years ago) which destroyed all electronic navigation gear the USNavy re-introduced the use of sextants and chronometers for all its vessels, they had two decades earlier been declared surplus to requirements.

The art of navigation needs to be kept alive, especially in this hacking world, alas it seems to be an inconvenience to personnel to take azimuth bearings of land, celestial sights, horizontal sextant angles, the latter I even used on the coast on the vessels which had no radar

[Keith Tindell]

I think you are quite right Ivan, i have heard of ships that have no paper charts, just electronic charts, so if the electrics on the ship go down, or the Sat Nav, panic would ensue. I only spent a short time on coasters, but that was where i really got interested in navigation. The bridge guys used to discuss the lights they were looking for etc. it seemed to me that you could learn more real navigation on coastal work, kt

[Ivan Cloherty]

The bridge guys used to discuss the lights they were looking for etc. it seemed to me that you could learn more real navigation on coastal work, kt

When deep sea there were many watchkeepers who had a deep disdain of 'coasting' men, what they should have had is respect. No long ocean passages of comparative relaxation to look forward to, no radars, no gyros, no water under the keel, rock dodging to make the next tide at the next cargo port, sailing with a foot under the keel, no comfort of rounding the point 5 miles off (or even 10 miles in some company stipulations) battling a 5/6 knot current on an 8knot vessel, arriving in port and sailing the same day, with hold cleaning on a short passage and do it all over again. Anyone who thinks rounding Lands End in a force 8/9 in a SW gale on a 1000/1500 vessel is any easier than an Atlantic gale, perhaps should think again as you battle your way to Limerick or even Cork. On the coast you were constantly alert, the traffic was intense and the 200 and 300 tonners difficult to spot in adverse weather as the kept disappearing from your limited horizon with your own low HOE (Height of eye). You learned traffic management and taking pilots would have got you the sack unless they were compulsory.

Be it deep sea, Home Trade, Trawling each required a different and albeit the same at time skills to perform adequately and safety and each should respect the other.

[Graham Shaw]

[QUOTE=Ivan Cloherty;382158

Be it deep sea, Home Trade, Trawling each required a different and albeit the same at time skills to perform adequately and safety and each should respect the other.[/QUOTE]

Well Ivan,I did 20 years Deep Sea and cannot recall once any Mate or Master passing derogatory comments about the coastal or fishing trades.
I could perhaps imagine though comments coming from the'coaster' about their perception of ,say my 200,000 tonner using size,draught and speed to impede other traffic flow whilst on the coast,even though most of us had a very experienced Channel Pilot on board anyway.!
I don't know who has been maybe slightly rattling your cage about the virtues or pitfalls of coastal versus deep sea,but as you said there should be nothing but mutual respect between all we seafarers,no matter what their rank or rating or certificates of competency or the trade being engaged in. I might have said in a different thread I preferred going FG than Coastal but that was my predilection,and had nothing to do with disrespecting anothers preferred choice.
Best Regards
Graham.

[j.sabourn]

Seamanship is seamanship and applies to every vessel fishing home trade deep sea, oil rig and all specialised vessels , watch keepers are watchkeepers are watch keepers and have no special talents as regards general seamanship they all have the same duties on whatever type of vessel they are on and that is to keep the vessel safe. This tall poppy most of us have just learned about , is in existence apparently. Any proper seaman should be able to go on any vessel and be competent. The same as it once was. JS.

[Keith Tindell]

If i might explain, i did not want to cause a dispute. When i was at sea 50-60s, when deep sea and on the wheel, 2 hr tricks etc,AB no one spoke to the helmsman, other than course to steer, very rarely did anyone engage in conservation, maybe it was frowned on, but on the coast it was much more relaxed, conversations would go on about the lights, tidal heights, when we could get into a berth et, and on that basis i enjoyed the coast, except of course in winter, which was when i would ship out deepsea some where warm hopefully, kt

[j.sabourn]

#10 know exactly what you are talking about Keith as went through exactly the same sequence of events as most on this site off the deck did. However after 4 years of that became a watch keeper and regardless of what others think , that was only a part of the job, and the easy part at that. Coastwise or deepsea is irrelevant the job is the same as regards results, I was on 83 different vessels and about 5 oil rigs during my time at sea , 37 vessels as master , numerous others as mate and 2 and 3 mate. These vessels included general cargo vessels , a cargo passenger vessel, oil tankers (2) , supply and anchor handling vessels , seismic vessels, survey vessels , drillship,
And other vessels I have nearly forgotten about . They all had one thing in common and that was seamen. It didn’t matter if their last ship was the Queen Mary or the Liverpool ferry they were seamen , I never ever heard any of them decry the other for their background, only on their ability to do the job , and most all were competent. If they weren’t they didn’t last in that job and most of the time if that happened it was their decision.
To leave. We were all very impressionable in our youth , but the older you get you learn to see people as they really are , and we are all good at yarning about the good or bad old days. Your not causing a dispute you are causing something welcome to discuss and is good to see you back. Cheers JS