Sea in my blood/family history

[William Bramhill]

I didn't go to sea (three of my four brothers did) but I always knew saltwater flowed in my veins.

Dad was a Harwich ferry captain after going deep sea (Battle of the Atlantic and Normandy landings) and on his side his grandfather and great grandfather were Liverpool lifeboatmen.

On mum's side, her grandfather was a White Star Line steward and his father a ship's carpenter, a casualty of the Rotomohana fire that led to questions in parliament over the safety of coal-carrying ships.

Also on mum's branch of the family were the Woods, from Whitehaven. As my family history research progressed, there were whispers from distant cousins that I unearthed: "I've been told they were shipowners" and "they were behind the first Liverpool tugs."

I've not confirmed the latter but I've leap-frogged that to the ship-owning bit – back in the mid to late 1700s. If you want to read a tale of derring-do, take a look at the Ramseys of Whitehaven and reflect on the perils faced by mercantile mariners over the years.

On a darker note, on dad's side I am descended from Lattimore Scott, a Portsmouth naval yard shipwright who was born in Barbados in 1746 to a family that owned a small plantation.

On mum's side, the Whitehaven crowd seem to have included a few slave ship captains. I've yet to find any in my direct line (except uncles by marriage), although William Walker of the ship Two Friends is my 5x great grandfather (yet to find verification).

I suspect many of us if we probe as deeply as I've done will find similar skeletons in the wardrobe. I won't be making statues to commemorate those ancestors but I will put them in the "museum" of my family history as a sober reminder of homo sapiens' potential for inhumanity.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Very interesting, thank you William.

Hope to hear more of and from you.

Regards, Keith.

[Ivan Cloherty]

On mum's side, the Whitehaven crowd seem to have included a few slave ship captains. I've yet to find any in my direct line (except uncles by marriage), although William Walker of the ship Two Friends is my 5x great grandfather (yet to find verification).

I suspect many of us if we probe as deeply as I've done will find similar skeletons in the wardrobe. I won't be making statues to commemorate those ancestors but I will put them in the "museum" of my family history as a sober reminder of homo sapiens' potential for inhumanity.

It is your perogative to condemn your forbears for perceived injustices, they lived in a different world with little or no communication with home base (not the DIY store), even those of us who sailed in the 40's and 50's we found that being away from home for months(even years) we were reliant upon snail mail which often missed the ship and was eventually received 2 - 4 months later, if at all, as it followed the vessel around the world. You can forget about telephone calls in most countries it was a 24 -48 hours notice and a week's wages and no connection guaranteed, money up front and non refundable. Something the young cannot contemplate.

Yes we will all have skeletons in the cupboard, and some will have heroes, it depends upon which standards you judge them by, be they woke/perceived/misinformation

Here are a few 'facts' which are printed in numerous studies

The word 'slave' is derived from the etnic term 'Slav' white Europeans who were the earlier common slaves.

The only place where slavery still openly exists in its most brutal form ancient form is Africa

More whites were enslaved in North Africa than blacks were ever taken to North America

The first recorded slave owner in America was a black man

In 1830 there were around3775 black slave owners in America owning approx 12,740 slaves

Slavery was universal, practised on every inhabited continent, it was not a British or American invention

Black on black slavery was common in Africa for thousands of years

All slaves brought to America from Africa were purchased from black or arab slave owners

White people were the first to outlaw slavery

No country did more or spent more to end slavery than Britain, using 40% of the national budget to free all slaves in the empire, using the navy to police and enforce the ban

England within the UK never allowed black slavery, the Lord Chief Justice ruling that 'as soon as a negro comes to England, he becomes free. One may be a serf but not a slave'

We have not even touched upon Barbary coast pirates and arab slave traders raiding Devon, cornwall, Brittany and southern Ireland to capture white slaves.

Just a few points to ponder on, before we condemn our ancestors because in today's world it is deemed politically correct to apologise for things we cannot change and in a woke world the whites were responsible for every misadventure the world has suffered.

I will now go back in my shell

[Red Lead Ted]

William, If i was you i would get all that info you have verified, The first tug boat owners in Liverpool or Chester ? Keeping my eye on this one mate Regards Terry.

[Captain Kong]

My Great Aunt Emily was a Slave, my Grandad`s sister.


In the 1881 Census, [ so it is a fact and official ] she is Eight Years Old and is described as a Coal Miner, in Bolton,

I would rather be picking cotton in the fresh air and sunshine than never seeing daylight, a couple of thousand feet below ground in a gas and dust filled atmosphere.
No Safety standards or showers then.
Brian

[cappy]

no need to go in your shell ivan what you quote is correct .....but it has been twisted to both destabalise many countries even to this day who give billions to countries where they cannot manage any sort of affairs iether monetary or in any sense of justice ...liberia was given to people as a home and country free of any masters .....to make there own laws .......it is one of the most lawless habitats in the world ....the woke type attacks on this my country is starting to be revoked ...god help the list of whingers and moaners if all of the western world stopped giving aid and any charity to these incapable foriegners .....enough is enough ......nobody worked harder to keep this country afloat than the people who where born and live here paying hard earned money from taxes to the worlds free loaders.....the cry now for me is ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.....R683532

[Denis O'Shea]

Ivan, I agree with cappy there is no need to go back into your shell, as usual your posts are always interesting and well presented. Den

[j.sabourn]

As regards the title of this post and re a post of mine long ago , this time in brief . Was 2mate on a Runciman ship came back into Liverpool after a short 6 months trip , Cuba Japan Australia. The master was an old family friend and boyhood friend of my Father , had been torpedoed twice and mined once during the war. He loaded all the paperwork on to me as regards the accounts. Arriving back in Liverpool he disappeared, and the mate went home on leave, however the crew paid off the old fashioned way and 6 riggers were employed as a harbour crew. I then received a telegram again the old fashioned way by a boy on a bike which just said " Report to me at such and such a hospital " he had phoned his wife in Whitley Bay to send to me. On arriving at the hospital he was sitting up in bed in a public ward regaling everyone with his stories , on seeing me he thought I was my father and was calling me by his name. I went along with the farce and asked him what was wrong with him , he said the doctors say Ive got too much Iron in my blood , my reply was too much alcohol more likely. The saying of he has salt water in his blood to me is a fallacy for any seafarer , water of any description be it salt or fresh for washing or drinking most kept shy of. The only gripe I had was that he hadnt told me that the NHI insurance had changed during the voyage and had used the old figures. Even the so called shipping masters and their flunkies had not noticed . what they used to be there for in any case I used to wonder , they were no big miss. JS

[Peter Hesketh]

[QUOTE=William Bramhill;380555]I didn't go to sea (three of my four brothers did) but I always knew saltwater flowed in my veins.

Dad was a Harwich ferry captain after going deep sea (Battle of the Atlantic and Normandy landings) and on his side his grandfather and great grandfather were Liverpool lifeboatmen.

Hi William,

I was at sea (Ellerman Lines 1966 - 1971) with a navigating cadet whose surname was Bramhill. (I'm sorry to say that I can't remember his first name after 50+ years) but I remember he said his Dad was a Harwich ferry captain. I would be amazed if this chap isn't one of your brothers.

Any chance he is still around, and if so, may want to swing the lamp?

Peter Hesketh

[Red Lead Ted]

William, I hope you weren't scared away by the posts, Bring us up to date on what you have had verified as you put it. Regards Terry.