By registering with our site you will have full instant access to:
268,000 posts on every subject imaginable contributed by 1000's of members worldwide.
25000 photos and videos mainly relating to the British Merchant Navy.
Members experienced in research to help you find out about friends and relatives who served.
The camaraderie of 1000's of ex Merchant Seamen who use the site for recreation & nostalgia.
Here we are all equal whether ex Deck Boy or Commodore of the Fleet.
A wealth of experience and expertise from all departments spanning 70+ years.
It is simple to register and membership is absolutely free.
N.B. If you are going to be requesting help from one of the forums with finding historical details of a relative
please include as much information as possible to help members assist you. We certainly need full names,
date and place of birth / death where possible plus any other details you have such as discharge book numbers etc.
Please post all questions onto the appropriate forum
-
16th November 2020, 10:03 AM
#1
Lost Containers
I try and keep up with my past industry, but still read things that perplex me. Over 16,000 containers have been lost overboard for various reasons this year alone, mostly in inclement weather; I now read that the Maritime Safety Committee of the IMO have passed legislation that allows Container vessels to reduce lashing requirements on various vessels on various trades, also RO-RO vessels will be allowed to reduce lashings on wheeled and tracked plant in their decks. I wonder if Mother Nature has read these regulations and will abide by them by reducing inclement weather, I doubt it, this at a time when we are seeing an increase in frequency of hurricanes, typhoons and cyclonic weather.
Going off track, and just curious, as I understood it the Merchant Navy Medal was intended to be awarded to those who enacted meritorious action at sea, normally saving lives and ships. I see that 20 MNM's were awarded this year some for aiding diversity and others the environment
-
Post Thanks / Like
cappy thanked for this post
-
16th November 2020, 10:47 AM
#2
Re: Lost Containers
Having recovered some containers at various times that are washed ashore here, i have often thought how lethal they could be at sea, depending of course on their contents, floating semi submerged, i should imagine they could rip a large chunk out of the hull if hit at speed, kt
R689823
-
Post Thanks / Like
-
16th November 2020, 10:59 AM
#3
Re: Lost Containers
Originally Posted by
Keith Tindell
Having recovered some containers at various times that are washed ashore here, i have often thought how lethal they could be at sea, depending of course on their contents, floating semi submerged, i should imagine they could rip a large chunk out of the hull if hit at speed, kt
Keith very lethal at times, they invariably never float level, but like an iceberg, so the corner casting, the strongest and sharpest point of a container is what you hit and with the light plating of today's vessels it doesn't bode well for the end result. You won't see them on the radar either, if not lost amongst the sea clutter at the centre of the PPI they will just bounce the rays from the parabolic refelector not back towards the reflector but in another direction, because what you have got in the triangular - conical shape floating is the ideal stealth design
-
Post Thanks / Like
-
16th November 2020, 11:35 AM
#4
Re: Lost Containers
Keith
A fishing vessel or even a decent sized vessel hitting one of those partly submerged containers could result in serious damage to it.
How any so called maritime legislation body can even consider reducing lashing requirements on certain trades is beyond me and who is held responsible for defects in lashing equipment, you guessed it, the master. How any master or crew member can keep a proper check on the condition of all the lashing gear and securing points on those monster container vessels is impossible to do and can you imagine the outcry should the master say sorry, we can't load any containers on deck in bays xxx due to corroded?! Securing points or inadequate lashing gear.
The master of the APL England, that lost some 50 containers off Australia has been charged with endangering the environment over the state of the vessels deck fittings.
https://theloadstar.com/apl-england-...-beach-debris/
Rgds
J.A.
-
Post Thanks / Like
-
16th November 2020, 12:03 PM
#5
Re: Lost Containers
Originally Posted by
John Arton
Keith
A fishing vessel or even a decent sized vessel hitting one of those partly submerged containers could result in serious damage to it.
How any so called maritime legislation body can even consider reducing lashing requirements on certain trades is beyond me and who is held responsible for defects in lashing equipment, you guessed it, the master. How any master or crew member can keep a proper check on the condition of all the lashing gear and securing points on those monster container vessels is impossible to do and can you imagine the outcry should the master say sorry, we can't load any containers on deck in bays xxx due to corroded?! Securing points or inadequate lashing gear.
The master of the APL England, that lost some 50 containers off Australia has been charged with endangering the environment over the state of the vessels deck fittings.
https://theloadstar.com/apl-england-...-beach-debris/
Rgds
J.A.
How can a ship master be responsible (I am not disputing that is current situation), he has no access to test equipment, is not trained in that discipline, etc. etc.)
Any other load bearing equipment must now be independently tested and certified by a recognised and certified company e.g. Lloyds British Testing.
It is just another example of ship owners saving cash and ducking responsibility
-
Post Thanks / Like
-
16th November 2020, 12:19 PM
#6
Re: Lost Containers
I well recall the night the Poole Fisher sank, a real foul night, and we had containers from the Aeolean Sky floating around, we had had some ashore here, and my first thought was that she had struck one of these, i now know from Brian Aspinall who was on the inquest from that tragedy that this was not the case. I suspect there are a great number of these things floating around out there, kt
R689823
-
Post Thanks / Like
-
16th November 2020, 12:29 PM
#7
Re: Lost Containers
The master is the owners representative and any failings of the ship he as the Owner in lieu is responsible. Thats the way the cookie crumbles. I dont agree with it obviously , especially as the masters power of having a say in matters has slowly but relentlessley disappeared over the years, they the ruling authoritys are only too willing to keep things as is , there always has to be someone to prosecute who can be readily restrained in custody until court cases are heard. Thats one reason every ships officer should take out insurance , to pay for his legal advice and any loss of salary. I was always a member of a union for that reason alone mainly. In my case it was NUMAST , out here in Australia it was the GUILD which was compulsory. I had cause to use legal advice only the once , but it must have scared certain people looking for scapegoats. Cheers JS
R575129
-
Post Thanks / Like
-
17th November 2020, 05:14 AM
#8
Re: Lost Containers
Like many of you I have seen container ships dock here in port Melbourne and wondered how they managed to get here.
Containers, particularly at the stern just about hanging on.
But have seen on a number of occasions something floating in the water when cruising that has looked very much like a container.
They do not always sink.
Happy daze John in Oz.
Life is too short to blend in.
John Strange R737787
World Traveller
-
17th November 2020, 09:31 AM
#9
Re: Lost Containers
Originally Posted by
happy daze john in oz
But have seen on a number of occasions something floating in the water when cruising that has looked very much like a container.
They do not always sink.
Most of them float for weeks, before the air bubble disappears, as stated earlier 16,000 plus have been lost this year all over the world, ships are getting bigger, tiers are getting higher, stresses are becoming more severe on higher tiers and they are allowing reductions in lashings, it defies common sense and seamanship. All these whizz kids who have probably never been to sea and seen mother nature at her angriest seem to think that computer modelling is the answer to everything.
I see that the OZ wharfingers are saying that seamen should not be allowed to lash and unlash shipboard containers as they don't know what they are doing and it is putting wharfingers out of work, I'm sure that many seafarers may only too happy not to be clambering over container stacks 11 - 14 containers high on deck, however whether wharfingers lash and unlash the Master will still be held responsible.
-
Post Thanks / Like
-
17th November 2020, 09:47 AM
#10
Re: Lost Containers
Reported this way 28 Oct 2020: There are fears that shipping containers which could be full of nappies or other sanitary products could wash up on the Welsh coast after a number of them went missing. A ship carrying 11 containers spilled the 40ft long units overboard and into the Bristol Channel.
It followed a warning that 11 containers fell from a cargo ship near Land's End. fallen from a cargo ship 11 containers had been spotted floating in the sea.
https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/war...h-up-in-wales/
-
Post Thanks / Like
Tags for this Thread
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules