Mutiny on Merchant ships.

[j.sabourn]

The death penalty was expunged from British Law I think about 70 + years ago. But I have faint recollections of it still being in the legislation book for shipping. Having a quick look on google it appears to me it wasn’t until someone noticed it was still there in 1998 until it was expunged. So anyone who was hung from the yardarm prior to this date should put in a claim for damages. JS.

[j.sabourn]

Keith your good at unearthing information , can you verify true or not that the death penalty for mutiny was not expunged until 1998. If so just shows how close we came to the edge. ( of the trapdoor ). JS

[Keith at Tregenna]

1998

Until 1998 mutiny and another offence of failing to suppress or report a mutiny were each punishable with death. Section 21(5) of the Human Rights Act 1998 completely abolished the death penalty in the United Kingdom.

[Duke Drennan]

I was on Denholm’s “Scotstoun” in ‘65, anchored off Claveria in the Philippines. We took the jolly boat in turns to get ashore, to a mud hut no less. Next morning, 2 AB’s were lying on the beach with the local working girls. The Old Man called on them to come aboard and when they didn’t, we raised anchor and headed for Davao City. A couple of days later, they showed up at the accommodation ladder exiting a multi-coloured Jeep, ex WW2 and now a local bus. After unloading a few crates of beer, they went straight up to face the music and declared that they would not work for the remainder of the voyage. He immediately charged them with mutiny and locked them in their cabins. I want to say that he restricted them to bread and water only but my memory can only recall the numerous parties we had in their cabins while under lock and key.
It later turned out that their actions only served to support the underlying game plan by Denholm’s. All through the voyage, the officers focused on inciting misbehavior and worse resulting in several loggings.
After about 7 ports in the Philippines, we were schedule to take the cargo of fruit to the Del Monte factory in Long Beach California. But after a day or two, we were told that we were headed for Hong Kong. The Old Man called all catering and deck crowd to the officers mess and declared that due to all the trouble between the officers and crew, Denholm’s were offering us all the chance to pay off in HK but only if everyone paid off. This of course resulted in a cheer from all of us. The Royal Navy had officers come aboard when we anchored off Kowloon to oversee the pay off. I think there was something like 7 DR’s.
Anyway, as we rounded the stern from the port side, headed for Kowloon, we saw a launch alongside the accommodation ladder on the s’board side, the replacement Chinese crew were going aboard. We flew home and were met at London airport by a reporter from the News of the Screws and a couple of agents from the union. They wanted details of the mutiny charges and more so, the fact that a British ship had just been lost to a Chinese crew. So, added to all of the other adventures experienced at sea, I just added mutiny to the tales. Mind you, I can’t recall anyone that believed me when I spoke of the incident, with the exception of other seaman.

[j.sabourn]

Think it was 1970 was on a foreign flagged vessel 3 Europeans on board , 2 Indians, the rest Chinese , trying to get into Saigon as a port of refuge. The Chinese crew sat down on deck and informed me they could not be seen to assist us as if seen to do so, their families in China would suffer. The third mate was Chinese and his brother was Bosun so had communication with them. I told the master who was far far removed from having a brain of any signiffigence , but unofficially the R/O told me later he had been sending out messages of crew mutiny . Until hearing that I wondered why the crowd were changed to Philippines when we finally made Hong Kong instead , as was told they were a pound a month cheaper. I sailed with the same 3 mate and Bosun a year later on another flag of convenience.. Maybe the owners had no choice to get rid of the Chinese due to the master being a panic merchant and jumping the gun and going public over the air.. Taking me all those years to figure out maybe another reason to think different , at the time the so called mutiny by his standards to me was just another industrial incident and didn’t think too much about it. JS

[Colin Wood]

Question for the boffins, "When does a strike become a mutiny??"

[j.sabourn]

When it becomes violent ? And physical force is used to constrain the free passage of people going about their normal duties. ? You have one in the US today. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

Question for the boffins, "When does a strike become a mutiny??"

Off Articles it was a strike

On Articles it was a mutiny


What present day legislation is, I have no idea, but probably ceased being a mutiny under the yuman rites

[j.sabourn]

#4. Can beat that one of 7 double DRs Duke on the Exmoor paid off in Liverpool 1962 with 11.:Trouble was already in the air when ship returned from a Palm Line Charter to Rotterdam and a change of masters. The new one refused to pay off crew , one bloke just walked off after dropping purposefully a 28 lb. mall on his foot, and so should say hopped off. Ship went to South America to load grain started loading in the port South of BA, and were going to BA to top off. Crew walked off in first port and just stood on Quay demanding to see the British consul . The new master was his first trip master and was in his 60s and an ex Bosun . His claim to fame was saying he knew how to handle men. The mate refused to go on Quay and talk to them. So had to get someone from the consulate down who was of course an Argentine . Crowd refused to accept him as the consular officer. The mate still refused to go and explain to the crew. So he sent me down as 2 mate. I explained how the consul didn’t have to speak the Queens English and they all came back on board. The master used to give the subs out himself and at the same time log the person for past demeanours . However on the short run up to BA we were in collision to aggravate matters , and on finally getting back to Liverpool with half the bow temporary plated over. There was a policeman on the gangway during pay off , but I never heard a word mentioned on the word mutiny. The ship after discharge went to Smiths shipyard in North Shields for repairs and was later sold. The original Exmoor was in collision with the Dutch passenger vessel the Ruys but doubt the records will show the carryings on before this event. I sailed on the next Exmoor years later under Runciman Shipping but my face didn’t fit there , and the old feeling of being home was not there , everyone in the midships crowd were terrified of losing their jobs. The decline was too deep in British normal tramp shipping. JS.

[Anthony Legg]

Hello John, I well remember the Exmoor incident at Bahia Blanca and the voyage problems between leaving Rotterdam and the West African coast before going to Argentina.The crowd were aggressive the whole time including broaching the bonded store. If I remember correctly there was also a problem with water, but not sure whether it was domestic water or feed water in the engine room as did waiting for orders in the South Atlantic.The collision with the Ruys outside BA a few days later didn't help and the crew were consequently angry , I was the night watchman in both BB and for part of the time in BA, such was the lot of an apprentice! All best wishes John.