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Thread: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    The only safety advice was …..
    One Hand for yourself and one for the ship.[ job]

    Below.... my Safety Gear...…………………….
    Safety Boots,.……..flip flops,
    Safety Helmet,.....Straw hat.
    Boiler suit...………..Sarong.
    Aloft...No Safety Harness... just one hand for my self.

    me working on deck on a Sam Boat., Blue Flu.
    Me hanging off the span wire, between two Samson Posts.
    me clinging to the top mast fixing a rusty light bracket,
    me hanging under the mast table.
    me climbing up from the anchor after a fitting a new joining shackle.

    Happy Days, loved every minute.
    Cheers
    Brian
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Captain Kong; 10th May 2020 at 03:16 PM.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    All this O T T Elf & Safety these days. Any injury or death is one too many, but when you think of the amount of ships that were about in the 50s - 60s - 70s and the normal, for those days, working practices and dress eg no safety lines when rigging or painting, flip flops, shorts, T shirts worn on deck, there were, thankfully very few serious accidents or deaths. I believe that was because people took care, they were far more careful in what they did, there was no sense of over confidence that hard hats, safety boots etc could give a person. You were up the mast and you took care because if you did not, the only way was down with a very hard unforgiving deck some 30 / 40 feet below. You were over the side painting so you made sure your stage was rigged correctly as again the only way was down into the water and what was under it or in it. Same on deck, you were careful of wires and ropes, as bights and snags could cause very serious damage to the human body. There was more skill and knowledge too, knowing when to back off and take cover as wires and ropes came under extreme strain, knowing when not to pass under working derricks etc. Accidents when they did happen were nearly always as a result of carelessness or short cuts not because of lack of skill. There is so much automation and fixed shore side upkeep of ships these days, that nobody does what we we did now and all our old skills and experience is not there anymore. Instead people are wrapped up in Orange Boiler Suits, Hard Hats, Visors, Steel Boots and Gauntlets just to throw a heaving line, or paint over side with harnesses and safety ropes that should one part and the poor seaman fall in the briny, he would never surface, being dragged down by his steel boots and water logged boiler suit. His neck would probably be broken anyway by the chinstrap of his hard hat as he landed in the water. At least if we went in, the most that happened was you surfaced through a film of paint from the paint can that had followed you down. Sorry I think the whole elf and safety thing is now blown out of all proportion. There are some good points yes, but on the whole its a load of massive gobble de gook legislation, some of which causes more danger than safety.
    Last edited by Chris Allman; 10th May 2020 at 05:41 PM.
    When one door closes another one shuts, it must be the wind

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    Health and Safety is a good thing. To much of todays Health & Safety is designed by people that have never operated at the coal face, they sit behind their desks in their ivory towers and think up the latest safety wheeze.
    Also much of our current safety legislation emanates from EU Legislation which the majority of the member states ignore.
    Ie. a few years ago legislation was brought regarding the fixing and testing of Christmas lights, here in the UK, Local Authorities went out of their way to ensure that they complied. On the continent the just ignored the legislation.
    Vic

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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    Vic, I agree completely with what you have stated.
    In 85 I was works engineer for an American owned company here in the UK. Their European headquarters was a factory in the North of Holland.
    One of the projects I had to undertake was to transfer 10 machines from the Dutch factory to mine in the UK. These machines were very similar to a lathe, with a rotating face plate and additionally some reciprocating arms.
    I visited the Dutch factory to inspect the machines and see them in operation so I was aware of their condition. One of the the things that stood out was the number of operators who wore no PPE or even any attempt to control their very long hair.
    The machines were installed in the UK within a week and at the end of the week I got a call from the group chief in Holland enquiring about the project.
    I told him that all the machines were installed and and he enquired about the production rate achieved, so I told him - nothing. He was very annoyed at that and demanded to know why, I told him that we were still waiting for guards to be delivered as they had none on the Dutch machines.
    His response was to ask why we needed guards, I replied, to provide operator safety so they don't get clothes or hair caught in the machine.
    His response - that would be the operators fault and not ours. He totally dismissed the fact that the factory inspectorate could shut us down.

    I lasted less than 9 months as the attitude to safety and environ was shocking and it was a battle to get anything done properly, went back to sea.

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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    At one time in the Indian Ocean I had to shin up from the cross trees to the top of the top mast to replace the lanyard that was used to bend on a rope and bosuns chair to paint the mast, all I had on was a pair of shorts, the sun was beating down and I was sweating in the heat, as I started to slide down I caught the end of the lanyard in my teeth, then just slid down to the cross trees. Now how would I have gone with a pair of safety boots with steel toecaps, a boiler suit and a safety hat? Even allowing for today's ships how can they climb a mast with all that gear on? How about the seamen who sailed on the windjammers climbing 160 foot masts.
    I'm afraid that today I see more accidents on building sites on TV than I experienced in my forty or so years working there. accidents happen but many can also be avoided with common sense, I think to much safety equipment would give a false sense of safety.
    Des

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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    #14 Tony I have a previous post on how a ship was loaded in Australia , which myself and the chief engineer an ex shipyard manager worked out for stress on the vessel. It failed the stress test and went to sea in an unsafe condition . Was lucky due to favourable weather to reach its destination. On being flown home from Durban had to go into the office to be interviewed and congratulated on the earnings of that vessel for the year I sat and listened to all this bulls..t and was told I was going master there next trip . I told them I was going nowhere under their management and walked away. Profit comes before safety every time , the safety officer stage is just another method of fooling the minority of people who believe in such twaddle. I agree in listening and practising loading and discharging of special cargoes by proper people who know the probable out come of things going wrong.. The other is just a mirage put up and used by business people using their acumen to accrue bigger profits. If people don’t know to safeguard themselves and their work mates then they shouldn’t be there. The care and carriage of cargoes used to be a special subject on its own. Today I doubt the modern seaman wouldn’t have a clue to the carriage of everyday cargoes, and I certainly wouldn’t put much faith being told by a land lubber how to do it. JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 11th May 2020 at 02:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    Hope you put the last stitch through the dead mans nose captain.

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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    Like other members looked in and found it did not fit with life ta sea in our time.

    However if you were to translate that to shore side work today it may well apply.
    But in our days we did have respect for each other and we looked out for each other, on board and ashore.
    We had to, there was no one else to do it for us.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    The idea of business is to accumulate wealth. How do you qualify safety with such, when the likes of reduced manning is approved when previous to this it was in the manning scales as to how many people had to be there to safely navigate the ship from A to B and that was just for sailing purposes no mention of Harbour and cargo work.originally overtime was paid in excess of 8 hours a day , as considered it necessary for Safety for a person to have adequate rest.
    Overnight this theory was changed to 9 hours a day , then shortly 10 11 and today 12 hours daily. In some cases 18 hours if reqiiired , all for the sake of profit , and cutting back on man power. What price Safety. Now.
    The manning of ships should depend on their trading routes and work practices, which is never the case .
    Even in the good or bad old days the crews wages came in last on the expenses on runnning a ship..But is the only thing an owner has control on , so the sky’s the limit as far as he is concerned. As already said Safety like Beauty is in the eye of the beholder . The biggest Safety Officer And should be the patron saint of sailors was and still is Samuel Plimsoll ... JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 11th May 2020 at 07:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Seafarer Research into Trust and Accidents

    #1, Well there you go Richard looks like we old salts are not the correct avenue for your questionnaire, or that your questions need a lot of rejigging, our safety rules were one hand for yourself and one hand for the ship, it seemed to work without filling in paperwork. Perhaps a more appropriate survey should be carried out on shipowners entitled :-

    'What are you shipowners doing to ensure the safety of your seafarers, other than abdicating your responsibility by throwing the onus on the seafarer, who not only works long hours but has to face the ferocity of mother nature not experienced by pen pushers'

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