The Forgotten Service...still forgotten.

[Keith Tindell]

I did just that Rob, i phoned up and asked if they intended flying the red ensign on the 3rd, they got back to me after an hour and said they would, i checked on the 3rd and they did fly the ensign. Guess it needs more push all over the country, and we are the few left to do it, kt

[robpage]

maybe someone could produce a blank format standard letter by next year , I'm not sure if Havant has a flagpole

[Keith at Tregenna]

Roll of Honour 2018

https://www.merchantnavyfund.org/merchant-navy-day/

[robpage]

FROM the website in #23

For the fourth year running, Seafarers UK is campaigning for the Red Ensign - the UK Merchant Navy's official flag - to be flown on 3rd September on civic buildings and landmark flagpoles across the UK. Parish, community, town, city, district and borough councils are all invited to take part, along with higher-tier local authorities and governments.

There are many locations where the Red Ensign can be freely flown ashore - civic centres, town halls, public libraries, village greens, churches, sports venues, historic buildings, tourist attractions, ports, etc.

This year hundreds of local flag-hoisting ceremonies will be organised, involving VIPs, civic dignitaries, Merchant Navy veterans, naval cadets, etc. A message of support from HRH The Earl of Wessex is available to be read out at participating locations 'to remember the sacrifices, salute the courage and support the future of the often unsung personnel of our Merchant Navy.'

what about those with decades of sea service who don't fill the MNA criteria of

Given that the definition of an Armed Forces veteran is any person who has served in the Forces of the Crown
and includes those with RFA service, it follows that a comparable definition for a UK civilian seafarer
from either the Merchant Navy or the fishing fleets who is considered to be an Armed Forces veteran
should be:
‘Anyone who has served on a commercial vessel at a time when it was operated to facilitate legally
defined UK military operations by HM Armed Forces’ and these personnel be called “UK Merchant Seafaring Veterans”.

that excludes a lot of Seafarers

[Keith at Tregenna]

“We should remember all of them”

'But for the Merchant Navy who bring us the food and munitions of war, Britain would be in a perilous state and indeed, without them, the Army, Navy and Air Force could not operate' Winston Churchill said on 27 January 1942. However, unlike the armed forces, whom are remembered / commemorated regardless of event, the Merchant Navy has to meet strict criteria to be included in National Commemoration.

We shall remember them "LEST WE FORGET" should mean all of them. Over 40,000 seamen lost their lives in WWII. Men whose wages were stopped the moment a torpedo struck their ship. Men who still vividly remember the horrors of watching their shipmates drown or horribly burn to death when ships carrying high octane blew up in a fiery ball. Men who survived and returned home only to sign on and ship out yet again to face the enemy with guts and determination to make their heroic contribution to the war effort.

No matter what enemy action they faced, or medals won, in both World Wars, to die in port would not fit the criteria to be commemorated even today and the brave young men of the forgotten service remain forgotten.

Some survived the First World War and much action, survived attacks in the Second World War and experiences that may have led to an early loss of life. But, without a direct hit from an Heinkel or a U.boat torpedo for example, they simply do not fit the official criteria.

[robpage]

World War 1& 2 , Korea , Vietnam , Suez , gulf war , falklands were clearly defined actions and therefore anyone who served in a war zone is a veteran . but so is Jack Dusty who never left Portsmouth for 22 years

[Trampshipman]

that will be the 1941 - 1945 war then ?

Ask him why he wont settle down to a shore job? He may grin and say he doesnt know. Ask him why after only a few days home his feet always take him off to yet another ship? He`ll probably shrug but can`t explain. Ask him why he risks a screaming death in a blazing hell, or a lingering death on a drifting raft? He`ll probably shrug and tell you its his job. Ask him why he got blind drunk last night and was dragged home by the police? He may shrug again but will not say "Because I sail again today".

[Keith at Tregenna]

His Majesty The King

"In these anxious days I would like to express to all Officers and Men and in The British Merchant Navy and The British Fishing Fleets my confidence in their unfailing determination to play their vital part in defense. To each one I would say: Yours is a task no less essential to my people’s experience than that allotted to the Navy, Army and Air Force. Upon you the Nation depends for much of its foodstuffs and raw materials and for the transport of its troops overseas. You have a long and glorious history, and I am proud to bear the title “Master of the Merchant Navy and Fishing Fleets” I know that you will carry out your duties with resolution and with fortitude, and that high chivalrous traditions of your calling are safe in your hands. God keep you and prosper you in your great task." H.M. The King’s Message. September. 1939.

[Keith at Tregenna]

CWGC Rules:

UK Merchant Seamen lost during WWII should, according to the rules, only to be commemorated when they are lost as a result of increased war risk and the loss was confirmed by the Registrar General of Seaman and Shipping. Unfortunately the RSS sometimes did not forward the details of some Merchant Seamen to be considered. The National Merchant Navy Association are at the moment compiling all the data held by the CWGC of Merchant Seamen who died outside of their remit. It is hoped all these men will be placed in a separate register and recorded accordingly.

A HMSO study published in 1955 "Merchant Shipping & the Demands of War" states that as many as 11,600 Merchant Seamen between 1942-1944 died shortly after leaving their ship, or whose lives were permanently damaged, either physically or mentally.

We note that the SPVA, as the joined-up Vets and pensions agency is now called, have been instrumental in helping with funding for obtaining the lists of names of all merchant seafarers who died during WW1 and WW2. They have also agreed that once the names of those not yet commemorated have been found they will help present a case to the CWGC for a change in the Commissions Charter to allow those named to be properly commemorated. The MNA then have to obtain the agreement of 16 other Commonwealth countries for a change in the Charter but the wind is with them. We understand that the Merchant Navy Association (National) are working on and strive to do all they can, not to appease but to remember.

Unfortunately unlike the three armed services who received war grave status no matter how the individual died, either war related, accident or illness, this was not the case for Merchant Seamen. A Merchant Seaman that died due to an accident does not qualify for war grave status and is categorised as a "non war related cause".

To qualify for War Grave status and CWGC listing a person had to die both whilst on duty and of a war cause or the increased threat brought on by war. Death due to accident, illness or marine disaster would not qualify unless it met both these conditions.

If he had been a member of HM Forces he would have been commemorated by the CWGC even if killed in an accident.

All they ever may have asked: "Let those who come after see to it that his name be not forgotten".

We still struggle to achieve recognition for all that helped to save us.

[dave moore]

Rob ,your suggestion of a letter to town halls etc ,this what I did and the Red Duster is now flown along with an annual memorial service along with a nice buffet afterwards ,proof that with a little bit of effort great steps can be made in bringing the MNs war contribution to the general public ,Regards Dave