Empress of Scotland July 1950 - Oct 1950

[Robert George Young]

Liverpool to where and back to Liverpool?

Could anybody tell me about these voyages....please

Where they going to a destination then back to Liverpool regularly?
Every couple of weeks maybe?

Destination of voyage R A Canada


I assume my dad wasn't on this ship all that time without shore leave?
July 1950 - Oct 1950

thankyou
Bob

[Keith at Tregenna]

Hope this link helps.

Keith.

THE CANADIAN PACIFIC LINER 'EMPRESS OF SCOTLAND'
(ex 'EMPRESS OF JAPAN')

The Canadian Pacific liner EMPRESS OF SCOTLAND (ex EMPRESS OF JAPAN) of 1930.

TGOL - Empress of Japan/Empress of Scotland/Hanseatic

[Captain Kong]

I sailed on the EMPRESS OF SCOTLAND , EX EMPRESS OF JAPAN. IN 1955 after the Seamans strike.
they were 17 day trips Liverpool to Montreal and Quebec.and back to Liverpool.
we had five days in Montreal and three days in Liverpool, so he must have gone ashore some time.

[Keith at Tregenna]

First hand knowledge from an expert.

Hope all this helps Robert.

Please reply if you require more.

Keith.

[Captain Kong]

I wrote the story of the EMPRESS OF SCOTLAND


EMPRESS OF JAPAN /SCOTLAND

EMPRESS OF JAPAN was
Built at Fairfields ship builders on the Clyde she was launched on December 17, 1929, she was 26,032 grt, 644 feet in length and a beam of 83.9 feet. She was designed to do 22 knots, and carry 1163 passengers. The Empress of Japan left Liverpool on her maiden voyage June 14 1930 for Quebec and Southampton, on the 12 of July she sailed for Hong Kong via Suez Canal and started her regular service between Vancouver, Yokohama and Hong Kong.
On her maiden trip Yokohama to Vancouver she made a new speed record for the trans Pacific route, and for nine years no one could touch her. She was the Queen of the Pacific in speed and luxury. She did 58 voyages between Vancouver, Yokohama, Shanghai and Hong Kong before she was taken over by the British government for war service in 1939, She was in Shanghai at the time and was ordered back to Victoria BC to be converted to a troopship. After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, Churchill ordered her name to be changed to Empress of Scotland. She gave excellent service throughout the war.
Empress of Japan began her war duties in December 1939 by travelling across the Pacific to take part in two huge convoys of converted passenger liners which brought Australian and New Zealand troops to the battle zones. In November of 1940, just days after the C.P.R.'s biggest liner, Empress of Britain was sunk off the northwest coast of Ireland, Empress of Japan just barely escaped the same fate when she was attacked by a Luftwaffe Focke-Wulf Condor in the same area. Only the superb seamanship of Captain J.W. Thomas and the Chinese quartermaster, Ho Kan, who was steering the Empress, enabled her to avoid direct hits. And although the Empress's lights went out and she was damaged quite severely, her Chief Engineer, R.H. (Harry) Shaw, and his dedicated men working down below decks in the dark, managed to keep their wounded ship going. At the same time on the deck, which the aircraft raked with machine-gun fire, the ship's Anti-Aircraft gun crew performed magnificently under the talented command of Third Officer John Allan Edwards, who was also the ship's Gunnery Officer. Amazingly, no one was injured in the Condor's attacks and later that day, the British destroyer HMS Windsor arrived and escorted the liner safely to port. Several of the ship's company were publically acknowleged for their outstanding actions during the Focke-Wulf attack: Captain Thomas was awarded the C.B.E. (Commander of the Order of the British Empire); Senior Quartermaster Ho Kan received the B.E.M. (British Empire Medal); Third Officer and Gunnery Officer (later Captain) Edwards was awarded the O.B.E. (Order of the British Empire); and Chief Engineer Shaw was Mentioned in Despatches. In January 1942, after Japan had entered the war, Empress of Japan had another close call -- this time from the Japanese airforce -- on her way to the besieged port of Singapore. Once again Empress of Japan's luck held, unlike her unfortunate companion ship, the slower, coal-burning Empress of Asia which was attacked by Japanese bombers before she could reach the port. Other gallant ships involved in the frantic rescue efforts, met the same fate as the Empress of Asia. But, although Singapore was under nearly constant air attack at the time that Empress of Japan arrived, she managed to get away safely with over 1700 women and children who otherwise would have been imprisoned by the Japanese. As a result of Japan's entry into the war, Empress of Japan's name was changed to Empress of Scotland in mid 1942.
During the rest of the war, Empress of Scotland often crossed the dangerous North Atlantic. She usually sailed alone, and not with the convoys and their armed escorts, relying instead on her speed and luck to outwit the wolf packs and the Luftwaffe. In addition to ferrying troops across the Atlantic, she also travelled the Pacific and Indian Oceans, making two complete voyages around the world in the last six months of the war.
Once the war ended, Empress of Scotland continued her trooping duties. Many troopships had been lost during the war, and she was in such demand that the British Admiralty did not release her from duty until May 1948.
during the war, and she was in such demand that the British Admiralty did not release her from duty until May 1948.
Following the cessation of hostilities the Empress of Scotland continued trooping, repatriating troops and their families until she was released on 3rd May 1948 at Liverpool . During the years 1939-48, the Empress of Scotland had steamed three times round the world, twice westbound and once eastbound, had sailed five times to South Africa and Singapore , and visited Australia and New Zealand five times. She had called at Canadian and US ports on twelve occasions, eight times to India and post-war twice to Japan . In all the Empress of Scotland had steamed 713,000 miles on war service and had carried 292,000 troops as well as other passengers.
When released, the Empress of Scotland was the only ‘Empress’ left in the Canadian Pacific fleet. The Empress of Russia had been burnt out at Barrow-in-Furness in 1945 whilst refitting. The Empress of Asia was sunk in 1942 off Singapore by Japanese aircraft. The Empress of Canada had been torpedoed and sunk in the South Atlantic when homeward bound from Durban and the Empress of Britain, completed in 1931, had been set on fire by air attack in October 1940, and subsequently torpedoed whilst under tow. The Empress of Australia remained a troopship until sold to breakers in 1952 and was never returned to Canadian Pacific.
The Empress of Scotland was sent back to her builders, the Fairfield Yard at Govan for a full refit for the Liverpool – Quebec mail service, and also for winter cruising. After eight years as a troopship, this was a job which took from June 1948 until May 1950.
The passenger accommodation was completely transformed. No space was now needed for Asiatic steerage passengers and this enabled very great improvements to be made to the crew accommodation. The ship was refitted for 458 first-class passengers and 205 tourist-class. All deck coverings had to be renewed and the promenade deck was ‘glassed-in’ for its whole length, this being more appropriate for typical North Atlantic conditions.
Externally the Empress of Scotland was repainted with a white hull and yellow funnels, but the previous blue riband of the 1930s was changed to green, and the company’s red and white chequered house flag was painted on all three funnels. The propelling machinery remained the same but was given a complete overhaul and new propellers were fitted. On trials on the Arran Mile after completion of the refit she reached a very creditable 22½ knots.
The Empress of Scotland left Liverpool on 9th May 1950 on her first post-war commercial voyage to Quebec , with a call at Greenock . She was the only Empress to make the Scottish call until the advent of the newer ships in the mid 1950s. On her second eastbound crossing she broke the record for the St Lawrence – Clyde passage by seven hours, with a time from the pilot station at Father Point in the Gulf of St Lawrence to the Clyde pilot station off Little Cumbrae of 5 days and 42 minutes at an average speed of 21•03 knots.
Later in the summer of 1950 the Empress of Scotland bettered these passage times by using the Belle Isle Strait (between the northern tip of Newfoundland and the south of Labrador), rather than sailing south-about Newfoundland via Cape Race . This route cut the distance from 2,728 miles to 2,558 miles, and she sailed from the Clyde Pilot to Father Point in 4 days, 14 hours and 43 minutes at an average speed of 21•3 knots.
In November 1951, Princess Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh returned from their Canadian tour on the Empress of Scotland.

The MOWT gave her back to Canadian Pacific in May 1948 and then she rebuilt with accommodation for 708 passengers and on 9 th of May 1950 started her trans Atlantic route from Liverpool to Quebec via Greenock.
In April 1952 her masts were shortened by 44 feet, to allow her go under the Quebec Bridge and Jaque Cartier Bridge to Montreal. George Britain the Bosun climbed the foremast to see what the clearance was. She stayed on the `Trans At` service with occasional winter cruising out of New York when the St Lawrence River was closed with the ice. And then in November 1957 she was taken out of service and laid up in Belfast, I saw her there looking very abandoned and forlorn, Her white hull was dirty and rust streaked, Her name had been shortened to `Scotland`.
In January 1958 she was sold the Hamburg - America Line, renamed HANSETIC and rebuilt with on ly two funnels. She was now 30,030 grt. And placed on the Cuxhaven- Havre- Southampton- Cobh, New York Service.
On 7th of September 1966 she caught fire in New York and badly damaged, she was then towed to Hamburg but she was too far gone to save and so she was scrapped.
The end of a once beautiful Liner. That served her country well..
WITH THANKS TO OTHER SITES FOR SOME OF THE INFORMATION


A voyage on Empress of Scotland.
I joined this very famous war heroine, Empress of Scotland on 8th of July in 1955, it was my first trip since leaving the dreaded SUEVIC and after the 1955 Seaman’s Strike. I was broke, skint, crabs nada in my pocket. I had been sleeping in the porch of St. James Church on Park Lane. It had a wooden bench so it wasn’t too bad being summer and all. I would climb the gangways of ships in dock and beg a cheese sandwich or something similar off the Cleaning Ladies and get a cup of tea. Not much fun after being on strke with no job and no money.
I was schooner rigged and I was due for a decent bed and some decent food and some ale money.
I had never been on a passenger ship before so it was a new experience for me. Mr Repp from the Pool sent me to the ship in Gladstone Dock. I had to see the Bosun, Harry Tonks, who went through my discharge book like a fine tooth comb. I had never seen this before, being vetted by a Bosun wearing a full uniform with a cap and badges. . He looked like a fearsome fella, I certainly did not like him at first sight. But Harry turned out to be a lovely fella, a real good Bosun. At the same time as I was in his cabin his son young Harry Tonks turned up and said `Hi Dad.`, `Kinnell` , was the response.
Young Harry Tonks had just got a double DR. He had been on the St. Tudno, a day time excursion vessel that took day trippers from Liverpool to Llandudno and Bangor and back, 8 hours. I once did a trip on her when I was 14 with Mother and Dad,
Harry was the only man ever to get a double DR on the St. Tudno, on an eight hour trip, he had filled in the Mate and threw him over the wall. Luckily he survived so Harry got the sack. They were a good double act during the voyages, quite funny.
The Empress of Scotland was a good job, we had the best of food, not like the cargo ships where we were always on our pound and pint.
There was a Pig, a bar, I had never seen one before, usually in the past we just got two cans per day per man or per week perhaps.
As much ale as you could sup at only 8 old pence a pint for Wrexham Lager. That was thirty pints for only one pound. could not believe it.
The cabins were rough Six ABs to a cabin, but we didn’t mind , we had a good crowd of comedians. In our cabin was a lad from Sheffield, we told him there was a dance in the Passenger Lounge, at 8pm and we were all invited. so at 8pm he was all tarted up in his best suit. He asked if we were coming but we said no. We all laughed at him as he went. We thought the Master at Arms would throw him out. He didnt come back until around 2 am. He had a great time and got himself a girl friend and that was him fixed up for the trip. We didnt take the mickkey out of him again.
We took the ship round to the Landing Stage and loaded the Passengers and baggage and the Mails. This gave us time to leg it up to the Pig and Whistle on Chapel Street for a few pints before sailing. And then we sailed up to Greenock the following day. We anchored there and a tender came out and alongside and we loaded some more Passengers and baggage and Mail.
I was a Lookout man, which I thought was great, instead of working on deck like the cargo ships it was good to be in the crows nest sat there reading a book with the occasional glance through the window to see if there was any ships around.
What fascinated me was when we got most of the way across the Atlantic during the night watches was watching the Northern Lights, an impressive sight. a splinter of light would shoot up into the sky then zap, spread across the sky like a fan then it was a fantasia and kaleidoscope of lights zapping every where. The greatest free show on earth I was getting paid to watch this show. We had a tranny radio in the Nest and it was great when we were nearing Canada when we started to pick up the Canadian radio stations. We could hear new records we had never heard before in England. Magic.
Then we went up the St. Lawrence River, what a big river it was. At Father Point a tender came along side as we were still steaming along and we put out a long wooden shoot to the tender and hundreds of bags of mail were thrown down it, The Train was waiting ashore for the mails to get a good start to their destinations. Our first stop was at Quebec, moored under neath the Château de Frontenac, known as chatty front and back. Only there for a few hours then let go and carry on to Montreal. Montreal was a good run ashore, I loved it, bright neon lights every where, not a bit like the dismal sights back home, still suffering from the effects of the war. The shops sold good gear we could not get at home, dungarees, Wranglers, Lee Riders, Tartan lumberjack shirts, Nylons for the girls back home. and so on. Good night clubs, the Volkland, dancing with the girls and closing time not until the early hours. instead of 10pm in Liverpool.
Good pubs, The Liverpool House, known as the House of Scouse, opposite the CPR berth and Joe Beefs opposite the Cunard berth and Ma the Greeks in between. for a late supper of steak and a quart of milk.
We had four days in Montreal which included the weekend, On Sunday I went up to Mount Royal, which gave a magnificent view all over the city and St Lawrence and to the Seaway.
The Empress of Scotland was a good job, we had a good crowd on deck, Joe Finnegan, who now lives in Perth Oz, and Tommy Lawless, now dead, always put on a good show every night in the Pig with their singing and Guitar playing. They had won the Carol Levis show on TV but refused a recording contract because they preferred to go to sea,
In the Seaman’s Mission in Montreal on a Sunday night they had the Bulova Watch Radio Show, with a singing contest, live on Radio, the winner got a Bulova Watch, Joe Finnegan won every time. over the years he won dozens of watches. I got on singing on the Radio every time singing. "Way across the blue water, lived an old Germans Daughter, on the banks of the old River Rhine. and I swear by the stars above her, I will always love her, she is my pretty Fraulein." and so on. The latest song at the time. I never won. It was always Joe.
Later after the show they had free bingo, I won that one, the first prize was a SEVEN POUND TIN OF GREENGAGE JAM.
That tin is still lying on the bottom of the Belle Isle Straits.
That trip I had my first burial at sea. One of the passengers had died, so watch on deck had to go and get him, we had to sew him up in canvas with some old shackles and iron bars tied to his legs, it was a bit gruesome. but Harry Tonks had given us a bottle of Four Bells Rum, which we drank before the task of sewing him up. We had a board painted white with two handles at each end like a stretcher. we put him on it and carried him down aft to the after mooring deck. and at 6am we stopped engines and the Staff Captain read a service for the burial of the dead, his widow was there with two other passengers, a very solemn occasion.
Then we tipped the stretcher up and the dead man slid from under the Red Ensign and disappeared into the cold dark waters of the Atlantic.
We arrived in Liverpool and tied up to the Landing Stage, While the passengers were disembarking we had to soogie the three funnels. At that time the new rating of DHU had started , Deck Hand Uncertified, this was because of the strike. They took on anyone who could stand up with no training at all.
A lot of them were ex Army. They were not allowed aloft. When I got into my bosuns chair at the top of the funnel I soogied and lowered myself down about ten feet , then unknown to me the DHU on deck made my gantline fast to the rails, then the Bosuns Mate shouted “Fore and Aft Stations”. and every one went I tried to lower myself and was stuck with the gantline being made fast. I was too low to climb up and too high to get down , about thirty feet.
Meanwhile the ship is let go and then she steams down the Mersey to Gladstone Dock and into the locks and then round to her cargo berth.
This took over three hours So I was not amused when someone saw me and came to let go the gantline. I chased the DHU around the deck and bounced him up and down.
The trips were 17 days, with four days in Montreal and three days in Liverpool. so she sailed every three weeks, I think sailing day was every Thursday arriving in Liverpool on a Monday.
I did two trips on her then paid off and had two weeks at home before joining the battleship `Georgic`. She was a good job but I couldn’t afford to stay on her , we were spending too much on ale and shopping in Montreal, there was no overtime to make it up.

Last edited by Captain Kong; 7th February 2011 at 01:41 PM.

[Robert George Young]

Sounds like Dad came home for a few days to impregnate mum...I arrived 9 months later....thankyou

[thomas michael]

I wrote the story of the EMPRESS OF SCOTLAND


EMPRESS OF JAPAN /SCOTLAND





I did two trips on her then paid off and had two weeks at home before joining the battleship `Georgic`. She was a good job but I couldn’t afford to stay on her , we were spending too much on ale and shopping in Montreal, there was no overtime to make it up.

Last edited by Captain Kong; 7th February 2011 at 01:41 PM.

hi capt kong
bags of imformation and a good yarn to boot,
I even remember going to menai straits on the tudno from the landing stage in Liverpool a couple of times.
tom

[Captain Kong]

Hi Tom
I went on the St Tudno in 1948, a good trip to Llandudno and Menai, Llanfair PG ,
We rescued a sinking yacht with four men on board , which made it more interesting, My first observation of a rescue at sea.

As I said in that post on the Emp of Scotland, Harry Tonks got a Double DR off the St. Tudno, , and that was only a day trip.

[thomas michael]

Hi Tom
I went on the St Tudno in 1948, a good trip to Llandudno and Menai, Llanfair PG ,
We rescued a sinking yacht with four men on board , which made it more interesting, My first observation of a rescue at sea.

As I said in that post on the Emp of Scotland, Harry Tonks got a Double DR off the St. Tudno, , and that was only a day trip.

hi capt kong
I went on amazon to order the book but the delivery time coincides with my being away, so I will check around in the morning to see if I can get a copy, Doc Vernon was quick off the mark with his imformation about the library so I will check that out as well.
as for the cruise to the menai it really was a proper little cruise,if only for the day, as I said, we done it a few times mainly for the booze and the skirt,
rescuing yachts I remember having the hots for my solicitors secretary about thirty five years ago and used chase her all around her office, anyway she was about in her late fifties early sixties at that time and so cultured, but drop down gorgeous ( and yes I liked older women then ) and she was telling me how her new boy friend at the time asked her to go out sailing, anyway when she turned up to go out sailing the little **** whom ever he was took out on this twenty foot bilge keeler, and when she finally came ashore soaked to the skin she told me she stood crying for about ten mins, and vowed never to be on another boat,i would have loved to be there to assist her then in her hour of need.
well your tale of the rescue of a yacht brought that memory flooding back just thought I would digress for a moment
tom