Safety at Sea

[happy daze john in oz]

Brian #8, we were the ones who survived the war and all that followed.
Yes we may not have had the best of education, certainly not by the standard of today.
But we survived and are in my mind better for it.
We went to a school that many who today in parliament would never understand and sadly are the worse for it.

We went to the school of life, where you had to work and look after your mate as well as yourself.
We became self sufficient, willing to try anything new, willing to make good with what ever we had, were not bogged down by stupid PC culture or 'elf and safety for that matter, though maybe we should.

The generation of today have no idea how to cope as they have some form of machinery or gov aid to do it for them.

We lived a life, many now just exist.

[Jim Dixon]

Brian #8, we were the ones who survived the war and all that followed.
Yes we may not have had the best of education, certainly not by the standard of today.
But we survived and are in my mind better for it.
.

You have got to be joking. Education today does not go near the depth of our generation. Entrance to University is almost demanded with useless degrees like Media Studies, Underwater Basket Weaving and the like. Let's get closer to home and look at qualifications in our industry. STCW qualifications are nothing like those pre 1978. The doors were thrown wide in the 70s by company's wishing to remove ratings off deck through some joke of a Class ?? (Deck).

[Ivan Cloherty]

Let's get closer to home and look at qualifications in our industry. STCW qualifications are nothing like those pre 1978. The doors were thrown wide in the 70s by company's wishing to remove ratings off deck through some joke of a Class ?? (Deck).

Whilst what you say MAY be true, I am not a position to contest it, the fact remains that there circa 50,000 merchant vessels operational in the world today sailing many seas and on ships much larger than what we consider the heydays, so it would seem whatever we may think of the current system of qualifications it seems (apparently) fit for purpose whether we like it or not.

As far as other educational comments are concerned, I feel sure that the correspondents are talking about education during the war years when a lot of teaching was interrupted by our German cousins who didn't like our standard of education and decided to remove a few schools. I know my own schooling was rather sparse having to walk many miles to and from the nearest school and having been bombed out three times in three different cities and a variety of very old teachers brought out of retirement to teach kids who they seemed to hate and blamed them for their interrupted retirement rather than the then current war conditions. Of course some were never affected by the war, talking to a friend who is a decade older than me and born with two silver spoons in his mouth he didn't realise there was rationing during the war and his schooling (outside the system) was never interupted. We all have different experiences and cannot judge others by our personal experiences

[cappy]

one thing stands out to me we each had to take a piece of coal for the classrooom fire .....kids with no boots ....free milk ...apples in a carton marked from your canadian cousins ....no paper just a slate and chalk ....outside loos and bloody freezing all winter...and as i got older my undying love for miss swan ...only surpassd by my love for miss mculloghwho had b igger boobies

[j.sabourn]

Certification as regards the deck you can compare with the old category of ships carpenter and AB/handyman. You cannot compare a trained shipwright with an AB when it comes to handling the tools of his trade. The same applies to certification on deck starting with seatime as starters where a seaman learns his trade at the coal face so to speak. I agree wth the sentiments but then Again I am prejudiced . There is no shame attached to the present day seafarer it was not him or her who changed the rules. It was government departments probably with the connivance of big business in the shape of the shipping industry. There was as I said in a previous post a period when they were giving class certs.away. Who can blame anyone for taken advantage of. If in the same position I would of. Today Britain doesn't have a shipping industry like yesteryear and never will again , unless a starship fleet.what few today makes a career at sea today are never going to make a fulll working life of it, will probably leave before they have gained enough experience to teach the next generation. Probably easier put today's certification. In the same category as the old square rigged certificates as today non existent as no one with one who can examine and issue such. In a few years there will be no master Foreign going steamship either JWS

[Captain Kong]

I found that there was a lot of resentment to an AB going for 2nd Mates etc. My first couple of trips as third Mate I was alone in the saloon and lounge. I had more experience at sea than the lot of them put together.
First I was an excellent seaman, 20 years on deck on every type of vessel afloat. before I went to college,
No shipping company had removed me from Deck, I applied my self to the Company on a Masters recommendation, I had always shown an interest in Navigation, and loading and discharging various cargoes etc. The Master said he had more confidence in me and not in the new third mate ex cadet who had spent more time in a college than at sea, who had very little experience or seatime, I had also served many years in the wheel house on watch observing Mates and Masters. many to my own amusement. The Tickets are only a statement to say you are of a certain standard on that date. The Examiners do not know how you would cope in any situation that arises, I have seen many, in various situations, almost in tears and Panic, because they lacked the experience of a Good Seaman. I have even on a VLCC, physically thrown the Master off the Bridge, because he placed us in a very dangerous position when I was on watch.
Apart from all that I enjoyed the job.
Brian

[cappy]

''yes brian its very strange how some cannot live with others who start at the bottom but make a success of there lives ....without help from wealth or family ties ....mores the pity ...but sad for them ....but such is life cappy

[Keith Tindell]

Education has nothing to do with practicality, i had a brilliant example of this only yesterday, my Niece , a lovely woman, 54 years of age with 3 grown up kids, has a university degree. She is moving into a new house on Friday and wanted to know who supplied the internet in that area ?, she thought that it was whoever supplied the phone line !, when i explained to her that BT supplies the line to all the companies, she was amazed, she had not stopped to think that with the gas companies it all comes down the same pipe !!. They don't teach what we used to call common dog ****, kt

[j.sabourn]

Brian you didn't have to come off the deck to face resentment. I faced it by many foneys masquerading as ships officers. There was always that feeling of superiority with many of them. Class distinction probably lasted longer at sea than it did ashore. My first trip as 3rd mate I was told by the second mate not to mix with the engineers and not to talk to the seamen on deck. I had just completed 4 years Working alongside the same, so do you think I was going to listen to such advice. No way Hosea got me into a lot of trouble not to fit in with their idea of slotting in. However I survived. One of them was second mate and surprisingly enough he was an ex Bosun, got his masters At 59 and they gave him a masters job straight away on account of his company service Put me second mate with him, had a collision up the river plate. Asked me to stay quite about certain incidents that happened that would have crucified him at the enquiry, which I did . If I had been of the revenge type he would of been finished. When you meet these types you wonder if they have any honour themselves. Cheers JWS

[cappy]

#i needed a driver at one stage a youing guy came in reply to the advert ...he had a degree in mechanical engineering ......i was gobsmacked ........a degree and working for me ...he was a decent guy but personality or in conversation just zilch ......education is neccesary but not the be all and end all of life ....but having said that sent both my kids to a private school ....after my experience of my ist selling job ....when the jewish gentleman with his secratary with her skirt up her ass told me he liked my product but eff off and come backwith an interpretor as geordie was not something he understood...................which was a big putdown .....but such is life the world is full of clever know better than you types lol cappy

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Brian you didn't have to come off the deck to face resentment. . Put me second mate with him, had a collision up the river plate. . When you meet these types you wonder if they have any honour themselves. Cheers JWS

they dont know what honour is john....cappy

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Brian you didn't have to come off the deck to face resentment. . If I had been of the revenge type he would of been finished. When you meet these types you wonder if they have any honour themselves. Cheers JWS

they dont know what honour is john....cappy