Missing Ship El Faro.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

HI Jim.
Thanks for that, it's good that Lt McBride at least answered with as much as he knows. Lets hope that the full inquiry finds out what happened at least about the body. we can only speculate.
Cheers Des

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[j.sabourn]

For those who are not seafarers on this site.. The US coastguard although a naval force as well, is the equivilant to our old B.O.T. and is the ruling factor in all Mercantile shipping re. statutory regulations and to issues of licences etc. The equivilant in Australia is AMSA ( Australian Maritime Safety Authority) Although most of us grew up in the UK with the BOT ( Board of Trade) MOT (Ministry of Transport) DTI ( Dept. Trade and Industry) and now we call it the Coastguard also. Either some bright person ashore has tried to copy the Americans, forgetting to the best of my knowledge, the British Coastguard is not a Naval Force. The Russians also to all intents and purposes their merchant fleets are run through naval establishments as to training, dont think the Americans go that far though. The Russians that I have sailed with all seemed to have a naval background and this was enforced by certain items I found on one of their merchant ships. However the US coastguard is the ruling body on US merchant ships. This would also apply to all foreign vessels in their waters. JS

[Shaun Gander]

For those who are not seafarers on this site.. The US coastguard although a naval force as well, is the equivilant to our old B.O.T. and is the ruling factor in all Mercantile shipping re. statutory regulations and to issues of licences etc. The equivilant in Australia is AMSA ( Australian Maritime Safety Authority) Although most of us grew up in the UK with the BOT ( Board of Trade) MOT (Ministry of Transport) DTI ( Dept. Trade and Industry) and now we call it the Coastguard also. Either some bright person ashore has tried to copy the Americans, forgetting to the best of my knowledge, the British Coastguard is not a Naval Force. The Russians also to all intents and purposes their merchant fleets are run through naval establishments as to training, dont think the Americans go that far though. The Russians that I have sailed with all seemed to have a naval background and this was enforced by certain items I found on one of their merchant ships. However the US coastguard is the ruling body on US merchant ships. This would also apply to all foreign vessels in their waters. JS

Do the UK coastguard (MCA still?) actually have any boats?

I know about 10 years ago they had a couple of RIBS but I think they were sold.

SDG

[j.sabourn]

Shaun I grew up in the era of the BOT and DTI. To me the British Coastguard was a couple of old men sitting in a house on a clifftop with a telescope. I know this is a mistaken belief as they also organized breeches buoys and informed the lifeboat service of ships in distress etc. etc. in fact I never gave them much thought apart from old films when they arrested rum smugglers and such on the Cornish and Devonshire coast lines. This must have been all mistaken and lack of knowledge on my part, which really is no better today. I was surprised when they were given the duties previously held by the BOT etc. My knowledge of such today is still sadly lacking, I know that my certificate had to be handed in for proof before they issued the piece of cardboard they now issue with a number 1 2 3 4 or 5 on. My old one being returned clipped like an old bus ticket, wish now I had not applied for the new one. I never even knew one had to be a seafarer for being a coastguardsman. As for having vessels as far as I know may have a few inflatables, and that is as far as my knowledge goes and if the truth was known, is enough. Cheers JS

[John Arton]

Shaun
You can look at what the MCA actually do just by going to their website (if you are interested enough)
They do not own any ships but have two salvage tugs on charter (permanently) One is stationed up around the Shetlands as far as I am aware and the other in Falmouth.
They also charter a Briggs Marine ship which is equipped with all the necessary gear to deal with an oil spill.
rgds
JA

[j.sabourn]

as regards oil pollution in the North Sea this used to be covered with certain vessels in specified areas of the North Sea. On the one I was master of the Seaboard Illustrious a converted fish factory ship.She was fitted out with all the oil floating booms, which in any sort of sea would of been nigh on useless. A launch for running these floating booms to try and contain the spillage, and intergral tanks on the ship to carry the spillage. As regards oil spillage management nearly every stand by boat carried oil reducing chemicals which was supposedly sprayed out through booms swung out from the ships side. However to be able to use these chemicals permission had to be giving by a government department and by the time that came through the slick would have magnified I would imagine to colossal sizes. Any small slicks the quickest and immediate means of dispersal was to put the ship into and churn it up by using the propellors whether legal or not this is what was done and suppose still is. I was talking to one of the oil experts who was sent out to the Gulf after Saddam had opened the taps. He said the best oil pollution ,method was Mother Nature, after 3 years the Gulf was nearly clear. As for Briggs Marine they were my last unofficial job in UK before leaving, which was a bottom survey in the eastern parts of the English Channel, The Thames Estuary, and southern part of the North Sea. I relieved an ex Green Peace skipper who I believe was averse to the job. The vessel was an old RN salvage ship and had a crawler crane lashed to the deck with chain, with a 2 ton grab on the end of the crane fall. This was an inland water ship and to my mind should not have been allowed in rough waters. She was laid up most of the year in Lowestoft and only brought out of mothballs when required at very short notice. Briggs marine must have come up in the world if has the income of the now coastguard and all the wealth it will now have. Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

#46... Additions to.. just looked up in discharge book. The vessel re Briggs marine owned was the Chieftain and owned by Briggs Marine, Leading Lights Building, Aberdeen. As was only a 10 days job, only remember going aground in the Thames estuary, but came off again as was mud, the old big fashioned steering wheel, and magnetic compass. The GPS equipment for the bottom survey must have been run off its own power source. It was laid up again in the inner harbour after locking through in Lowestoft, and my last memory of her was disconnecting all the emergency batterys. Would be interesting to know the names of the vessels that they now commission out to the coastguard. JS

[John Arton]

Just checked on the MCA website and up until 2011 they had 4 Emergency towing vessels on contract. These were owned by Klyne tugs of Lowestoft.
The contract for them ended in 2011 so unsure as to the status now. Pretty sureJ they have the "Anglian Monarch" on contract still.
United Kingdom's emergency towing vessel fleet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
rgds
JA

[j.sabourn]

Certainly fairly good bollard pulls. When I started off in North sea late in life we were still struggling with 80 ton bollard pull, this went up over the years and think one of the Scandanavian vessels I was on bought by British owners was about 180 tons, whilst their newer tonnage went over the two hundred mark. Many the time when a larger tug wasnt available were struggling shifting a rig with two smaller vessels. One on the towing Bridle and the other towing from one of the rigs anchor points or some other strong point. Very frustrating at times especially in winter when steaming around waiting for the weather to go down before positioning her at new site. There are or were numerous tugs and anchor handling vessels in the UK on the spot market, so would of thought the person in charge could have saved a hefty amount of money by falling back on that availability of vessels for emergency towage rather than keep 4 vessels on permanent standby, however they must have gone into all the probabilities beforehand. During the Falklands war there were I think 4 anchor handling /tugs from the North Sea went, the latest wimpy boat at the time being one of them, forget now what her bollard pull was. The post that David Ede put out shows the amount of money it costs to hire these specialized vessels and is sometimes cheaper to buy them outright, but then again a ship only has a restricted service life before more modern vessels appear on the scene. Thanks for info. JS PS the wimpy seahorse was the ship and was only about a year old then. She finished up down here in 1995 and was considered too dated for the North Sea, she was the icing on the cake here as all the real old stuff found its way down under via Singapore. JS

[j.sabourn]

As regards people drowned at sea, apart from deep sea, during my time in the North Sea there were 4 drownings that affected me personally as knew them all and sailed with them on and off at various times. I can only say that I was fortuanate enough to be not present at the occurencess. There were of course many more that I heard of but were not known to me personally. JS