The Red Duster

[cappy]

HI Ray.
All of the above are correct, but there was a ****** in the woodpile, if you read Franklin D Roosevelt's auto biography he stated that when the war was over he wanted all of the British influence and if possible territory, they the Americans were the mainstay of European recovery and through the Marshal plan what they asked for they got, they still run Europe and NATO what they say goes,
If it was about cheap labour the yanks for one wouldn't be carrying their own cargo at the rates their seamen get, America after all is the capital of Capitalism.
Cheers Des

Attachment 16869 May it fly proud again

###would that be a woodpecker in the woodpile regards cappy

[happy daze john in oz]

here was a time when the British Merchant navy had 60% of the worlds shipping and some 70% of trade, now all gone. Containers and jumbo jets stuffed it up.
But now th eRed Duster still flies though in a rather odd manner. Some Cruise ships, Cunard, Princess and a couple of others fly the falg. The reason, their port of registry is in part of the Bahamas that are still British colonies.

[j.sabourn]

John I still maintain if they are flying the Red Ensign and registered in Bermuda they are required by the old law to fly the flag of the country of registry. Flag etiquette is nothing like it used to be and if these ships are flying a straight red ensign then the authorities are turning a blind eye to it. The time you were at sea if a ship entered port not flying its ensign there was a fine of 5 pounds. It is rare to see a cargo ship enter port now flying anything apart from dirty washing, This bit about the red ensign and the colonies or such is being misused or there has been a change of law. One of the last deep sea ships I was on was Registered in Gibralter, flew the red ensign with the symbol of whatever it was on the fly, not the straight red ensign. As I said I was recently on a NZ ferry in NZ, she was registered in Portsmouth and flew the Red Ensign and not the Kiwi flag. Says something when the likes of NZ know more about flag etiquette than the Brits. You will get passengers believing anything they are told by ships staff who are trying to build up business for their company, used to call them good company men at one time, believe it or not I was one also until I saw the light. That was when the redundencies started coming in and pensions that had never existed but were supposed to have been there. Cheers JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

Who won the war the countries that we have suppose to have defeated have done better than the UK who can we blame was it the our politicians or was it the attitude of the people
I do not like the Germans or the Japanese but they sure got stuck in and made there country of what it is today

Whilst taking nothing away from the industriousness of the Japanese and Germans they got a great helping hand from the Americans (and also the British) Govt who equipped their factories with up to date machinery to aid their recovery and to persuade them not to fall in with the Russians. Meanwhile Britain had to finance its own recovery but still use its 1900/1920's machinery and outmoded working practices and also commence paying off lend/lease. In addition these countries were given top advisors to assist them, it was a British Army engineer who organised the rebirth of the Volkswagen group and got the Beetle back into production.

[John Arton]

One of the other factors behind the demise of the British MN was the greed of the bankers and accountants behind the shipowners who persuaded them that ship owning was not a profitable business and they could earn more money by investing in property, airlines etc. So you had Blue Funnel investing in Air Lines, Cunard in property etc. and all the while world trade was and still is, increasing.
In the Canadian Pacific as the trade in emigration to Canada became less due to the advent of cheap air fares and the general cargo trade generally started to decrease being replaced by bulk and container trades with countries around the world manufacturing more and more of their own products, C.P. moved into the bulk and oil trade in the late 60's and early 70's. I joined them in 67 and at that time they had 2 Empress ships, 5 small Beaver boats and 2 new crude oil tankers. By the late 70's the fleet had grown to some 30+ ships, tankers, bulk carriers, geared bulkers, chemical tankers, container ships. All manned by U.K. Officers with some U.K. ratings on some of them. By 1989 the whole lot of them had gone and C.P. was a container company only but employing very few British Officers.
The time I spent with them, on every ship I sailed on, it always covered its daily running costs and made some profit. Some of the ships were making major profits, yet all the money made went straight back to the parent company in Canada. Annually the bosses in London and Bermuda would go cap in hand to Montreal and say to them "give us XXX Millions and you will see X amounts of profit on your investment". If they had forecasted,say, a 10% profit return at the beginning of the year but by year end only returned 5% then they would quite legally declare a 5% loss. Whenever the big wigs visited the ships there cry always was "why should we invest in shipping and get 5% profit when we could invest the same amount in the stock market and get 10% returns", to which our reply was always "because you are shipowners and although you may only have made 5% this year what about the years when you made 10/20%". They then used to bang on about the high cost of manning using U.K. seafarers which we al knew was bunkum. By 89 all those ships had gone with the exception of the container ships which quickly grew into one of the largest container outfits going, owning CAST, Lykes Line, OTL etc. before it was all sold around 05 to Hapag Lloyd of the Tui group. The chemical tanker side, making a 36 million dollar profit was sold for peanuts to Seachem and the money from the sale of the other ships went into founding Carnival and another outfit based in the same office as C.P. Bermuda, called B and H shipping. If you are to examine the board of Directors for the holding companies behind those business's you will find the names of a number of CPR directors on them. So in the end some 1000 British officers were thrown on the scrap heap to satisfy greedy bankers wanting to make a big profit instead of being satisfied with a suitable profit for their investors. Sounds familiar does it not, greedy bankers bringing down economies.
Long before C.P. folded they had both NUMAST and the Seamans Union in their back pocket and had even got the ITF on their side. When it all started to go to rat shite in the early 80's and we were visited by NUMAST officials who explained to us all what a great deal we were getting by going onto offshore contracts where we lost our company pension scheme and much of our redundancy calculations, we questioned the Union guy why in previous years when we had at one time received as much as a 30% pay rise, the Union had not done more to get us better leave and redundancy payments when the company was throwing money at us in order to recruit staff to man the expansion of the fleet. The Union guy, on a paid by C.P., jolly around Mexico had no answer to that as he had been in C.P.'s pocket for a number of years. My redundancy from C.P. equated to £1000 per year served yet a relation of mine who lost his job when the mines closed got far more than I did and he had only worked in the mines for around 10 years.
Am I bitter, slightly because I did go onto getting a job straight away with Seachem as a port captain before returning to sea with Stolt's but then having to watch both Tory and Labour governments loosen banking controls to such an extent that those greedy bankers were able to almost bring the world to a halt whist still enjoying huge bonus's with there shady dealings, along with governments relaxing immigration controls to allow foods of migrants from the sub continent and Europe to come into our country, a country that is now so overcrowded as to be almost unsustainable.
Ranting over for the day, off to calm myself with morning coffee.
rgds
JA

[j.sabourn]

If remember from my history days germany was made up of various Germanic states which Hitler tried to unite as one greater Germany. The germany of old supplied more soldiers of fortune or mercenarys than anything else. JS

[j.sabourn]

#16... Well said John, better than I ever could. Numast never was much good, about on par with the NUS. I was always a member re. the necessity of insurance re certification or so I was told. The NUS what I saw of them at grass roots level were probably honest men on the whole but the further you got up the ladder the more dishonest and dishonourable they became. They could not have survived in any case the system they had where a lot of the seamens membership fees were deducted from earnings at the pay off table and on signing on Articles. Here in Australia was a shock to the system at first but on contemplation was more honest and straight forward as to fees and as said, was the equivilant to the pool in the UK. You either trust the Shipowner or have a bit more faith in your fellow seafarers is the way I look at it. The pensions and redundancies the seamen received here far surpassed the uk, so I choose to go the way of the better results. We all thought we were good company servants at times and thought the world was our oyster and shipping would always be there, it is to a certain extent if you are willing to go along with a bunch of conditions that go against the grain. I feel sorry for the present ones, there may be some who are sitting reasonably well, for how long depends entirely on the stock market and the well being of their not too trustworthy employers at times. The merchant fleets of the world still to come on mainstream will be the Russian and Chinese who already have a good sized fleet in any case, What world seafarers will do then remains to be seen as these countries have a wealth of their own nationals at call. Cheers John S

[Captain Kong]

Accountants were also to blame.
Their job is to see how many ways a Shipping Company can cut costs of operating ships thus increasing their Profit margins.
In Esso for example. ...
A VLCC took four months to sail around the Cape from Europe to the Gulf, load and return via the Cape again.
It is only carrying a cargo for two of those months. the other two months in Ballast, No Profit, only Costs: Fuel, Wages etc. etc. Also the previous crew are home on leave on full salary, no Profit there, only costs.
.So the Accountant figures, what's all that about?,
Sell the ships, creating capital.
Pay off all the crews, redundancies. No more being paid whilst at home on leave on full salary, No more non contributory Pension schemes, Even in the Office cut down Staff who are employed in the crewing department, No more transportation costs of an empty tanker in ballast. No more maintenance costs, and so on and so .
Just Charter some of the many VLCCs and their third world crews, waiting for a charter, and only pay for the loaded passage one way. All outside costs have been eliminated.
and that is basically what a lot of companies did.
So Ships disappeared and Seafarers all out of a job. That is what happened to us.
Cheers
Brian

[Raymond Bisseker]

Thanks for all the posts boys. All interesting reading, a fountain of knowledge no less..........Seasons greetings to all past and present who served and are serving under the Red Duster..

[Captain Kong]

Also here is another one.
The Three Queens, Mary2, Elizabeth, and Victoria of Cunard. all Registered in Southampton,
Cunard announce they are flagging out to Hamilton Bermuda, Bermuda ensign and Hamilton painted on the stern.
Reasons give was, There was a Big Multi Million Pound business in having weddings on board. Under UK Law this cannot happen on British Registered ships , hence the flagging out.
A few months after the change of Flag. I sailed to Sydney on Queen Elizabeth, I asked the Purser, `How many weddings have you had so far, ` he replied `None`. I then said , `How many weddings have you booked for the future ` he replied `None,`. [ a multi million pound business????]
I knew a Very, Very, Senior Member of the staff, sailed with him many times before.
I asked him what was it all about , this flagging out. he told me not to tell anyone about it. So I will tell you all.
He told me that under European law regarding employing crews new regulations were coming into force and that would mean pay rises and Conditions of Employment for all the crews. So to avoid all that they put the fleet under the Bermuda Flag which is Not affected by the eu.
Cheers
Brian.