The Pool

[j.sabourn]

In Australia tell me if I'm wrong those who live out here, was known as A and B roster. It was a closed shop for everyone and had to be a member of a maritime union. Think it was 5 percent of your earnings went to the union if you were an A roster seaman. However discovered just before I retired if you went on to the B roster which was considered casual work, you only paid 2 percent. Also as a casual you got 25 percent loading i.e. 25 percent above the wage. The down side to this was loss of money which the union and shipowner put into the superannuation fund for the individual seafarer. I have never seen in my time here any seafarer complain on his entitlements on retirement. There again I may be wrong as my knowledge is limited to what others may have experienced out here for a longer period. It worked for me, others can complain about unions, as long as they are working for the benefit of their members I have no axe to grind. JS

[j.sabourn]

Should add to #11, the difference being here, the pool system was run by the union, in the uk was run by the shipowner. If you weren't working here you were not paying union dues. I know which system I prefer. The Maritime unions out here have a very bad press which is politically motivated as such to break them. As said I would not vote for a union official as a politician, but certainly see them as the only guard the working man has against misuse of the big boys using the labour force to their own requirements. JS

[Braid Anderson]

John, many years ago there was a critical shortage of cement in Brisbane. I ordered a shipload from Taiwan, pre-sold half to Pioneer, and formed a stevedore company with the Union as partner. Otherwise it would have cost me more to get the cement off the ship and out the dock gate, than it did to manufacture and ship. Soon as it was out, I gave the union my half of the company. On another occasion I had a desperately needed D9 dozer shipped from Tasmania to Sydney. We turned up with the float, and the D9 was sitting there on the dockside ready to go. But the union told me the man with the dozer 'ticket' was elsewhere, but would be back some time in the afternoon - it was then 11am or so. I told them no worry, I had my D9 operator with me. They said no, no, their man must load it, so I said politely okay we'll wait. I actually had 5 men with me plus the float driver. As soon as everyone disappeared for lunch, we quickly loaded the dozer onto the float, fastened a couple of chains, and took off out the gate without stopping to be checked. Meanwhile four or five union men jumped into a Holden station wagon and pursued us. But they had no chance. The float was in front, with me riding interference behind, in the big Ford F250 ute!

[j.sabourn]

Not saying the maritime unions are a bunch of angels and have their hard core of whats in it for us and ambitions on the Al Capone style. What is the difference though for the average seaman being ripped off by the shipowner which he was in many cases, I can quote where I was ripped off by the British owner quite a few times. However during all my time at sea I look upon the Australian period the best conditions and well run as possible on the ships as any I saw on the British ones I served on. For starters there were no lies told about the wages and conditions and you knew exactly what to expect. Some seamen were bolshie most probably a throwback to uk shipping days, as most out here had a uk background. Working in the offshore for a number of years I saw non of the do what I say no argument from the oil companies that one saw in the North Sea. What kept them in line was the threat of withdrawal of labour, there were no unions as such in the North Sea, some of the ships I was on there were an absolute disgrace. If it wasn't working here it got fixed and no threats by the shipowner were acceptable. If the seamens union in the uk had not been hand in glove with the shipowner things might have been more acceptable there also. British seamen to me have been let down terribly, always were and always will be. The reputation of some owners leaves a lot to be desired. Cheers JS

[Red Lead Ted]

John, I remember paying off the Eucadia 1972 after a 12 month voyage, Long story but we were caught up in the India/ Pakistan war, We had cargos for both countries so were back and forth to Aden to discharge one then back to load the other to prevent us being compounded by either country, Cut a long story short we were alongside in Karachi xmas 1971. Ships agent came aboard and we were ordered to slip our moorings that evening as soon as the dockers stopped work and drop our hook until further orders a few miles off the coast. That evening a bloody big ex Royal Navy cruiser trawled the coastline absolutely hammered the port of Karachi. A stray missile from an Indian gun boat blew the British ship M.V. Harmattan Harrisons of London to bits. Lives lost along with other countrys Merchant ships over the course of the month of December. The Harmattan was towed along side us on 26th December. Total write off the surviving ships crew were put ashore and flown home. A few years ago I posted the story on another forum only for the ship owners son to post the tale when he was in the office on the morning of the 9th of December and received the news they had lost one of there ships and how sick they were that the crew had been put through this terrible ordeal but assured me after asking what the company had done for those who lost there lives and the survivors who never returned to the sea that the whole insurance from the ships hull a cargo of fertilizer was split amongst the surviving crew and those loved ones who lost family. I got this checked out by a member of this site who new a survivor, Only to be told when they were taken off the wreck they were each given £100 each and a plane ticket home. I sent this lad some very strong worded emails because he wouldn't reply to any more posts. After my 30 odd days leave I reported back to the pool, Neither the N.U.S./ Any of the pool agent staff/ Or anyone else could tell me any information on the tragic event. Its something I think about for maybe just a moment every day of my life what became of those poor soles who went through that ordeal. I have over the years managed to contact survivors through forums like this. Sadly Robin Marsh the ships radio operator who forwarded the whole story and excuses from the Indian Government of the day passed away 2 years ago. But as you say Ship owners/ N.U.S./ And the shipping federation/ It was just another day in the office. Who said life at sea was a walk in the park. Regards Terry. p.s. This is the only surviving picture taken on an old polaroid camera taken by one of her crew as they were put ashore.

[Captain Kong]

I have looked all over google for the Harmattan incident, Very little information at all, just that she was hit by a missile and sunk,
Not a word about casualties,
I guess no one cares about dead and injured Seamen .
Brian.

[Hugh]

I guess no one cares about dead and injured Seamen.

We do on here Brian.

C. Gemmel, Second Engineer, Blackburn, West Lothian.
K.J. Seddon, Fourth Engineer, Wigan, Lancashire.
R. Condie, Junior Engineer, Stockport, Cheshire.
R.G. Batchelor, Second Steward, Lowestoft, Suffolk.
J.D. Lambert, Assistant Steward, Hendon Middlesex.
T.M. Clark, Chief Cook, South Shields, Co Durham.
J.F. Shaw, Second Cook, London.

R.I.P.

The George Medal has been awarded to two young merchant seamen for bravery when their vessel, the HARMATTAN, was struck by a guided missile during the Indo-Pakistan war. They are Mr Donald McPhee, junior engineer, and Mr David Robinson, catering boy, who showed complete disregard for their safety in helping colleagues.
For bravery in the same incident, the ship’s master, Captain Hubert Houston, is made an MBE.
After being driven back from rescue attempts by intense smoke and heat “he coolly and efficiently mustered the remaining crew members, including the wounded” getting them into the ship’s boats, which he had already had swung out in anticipation of an emergency.

Regards
Hugh

[Captain Kong]

Many thanks for that information, Hugh,
Cheers
Brian

[Red Lead Ted]

We do on here Brian.

C. Gemmel, Second Engineer, Blackburn, West Lothian.
K.J. Seddon, Fourth Engineer, Wigan, Lancashire.
R. Condie, Junior Engineer, Stockport, Cheshire.
R.G. Batchelor, Second Steward, Lowestoft, Suffolk.
J.D. Lambert, Assistant Steward, Hendon Middlesex.
T.M. Clark, Chief Cook, South Shields, Co Durham.
J.F. Shaw, Second Cook, London.

R.I.P.

The George Medal has been awarded to two young merchant seamen for bravery when their vessel, the HARMATTAN, was struck by a guided missile during the Indo-Pakistan war. They are Mr Donald McPhee, junior engineer, and Mr David Robinson, catering boy, who showed complete disregard for their safety in helping colleagues.
For bravery in the same incident, the ship’s master, Captain Hubert Houston, is made an MBE.
After being driven back from rescue attempts by intense smoke and heat “he coolly and efficiently mustered the remaining crew members, including the wounded” getting them into the ship’s boats, which he had already had swung out in anticipation of an emergency.

Regards
Hugh

Thanks Hugh, I have all that info myself in my personal folder regarding the incident, Its worth mentioning the young catering lad who received the George Medal if my memory serves me right the lad was only 15 yrs old. You don't have to be at war in the Merchant Navy to be a casualty Cheers Terry. R.I.P. Them all.

[Lou Barron]

Going back to the pool system if my memory serves me right it did not start till 1940 the only time that i went to the pool was when i paid off Duchess of Bedford after a couple of weeks ashore i reported to the pool in Liverpool and i think that they did not offer me a ship but my mate and i was but on fire watch on a ship in dock it was one of the bay boats we did this for about a week then back to the pool were we were given the job as OS on the G /Castle i think you had to take the first ship they offered you but i might be wrong
In them days things was pretty grim forMN guys and i believe they even took ex seamen out of the army and also them guys who was in jail