Port expansion health impact review launched.

[Jim Brady]

There seems tobe some concern here regarding the emissions of gas levels such as sulphor oxide and nitrogen oxide from the larger ships that will be using the new berth here at Seaforth.The study will look into what impact it will have on the health of the local people.Environmental campaigners claim the bigger ships will cause more pollution.What will be looked at are the levels of sulphur oxides,diesel particulates and nitrogen oxides.One man claims the big ships generate the same amount of exhaust as seven million cars and have been likened to"floating power stations" and would be banned if they were on land without emission control.There is a lot more to this story but thats it in brief.
As an aside I believe in some ports on the West Coast of the USA the ship has to shut down in port and connect to the local electricity supply.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[j.sabourn]

What about the health of the people serving on these ships then. In our days the only health obligations that I can remember were innoculations and vaccinations for Small Pox (every 2 years) Cholera ( every 12 months) Yellow fever ( every 15 years) if werent in date some ports quarantine wasnt granted until were put in date. Often wondered in latter years when standing in line for injections in Bombay if an already used needle was being used, especially when Aids was made public knowledge. Also wonder how long before the general public were made aware that aids existed. It couldnt have just appeared overnight. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

#1 Jim, connecting to shore supply, it is known as a 'Cold Iron Connection' a lot of modern ships are fitted with the connection as standard when built, but there are few ports around the world that make it compulsory, there are some in USA/UK/Australia but it is mostly passenger ships that are obliged to cold iron because of their vast consumption, Port Authorities say it is for environmental reasons, but it is also a cash cow for them. Cargo ships have to be enticed into a port so port charges are kept to a minimum, and forcing freighters to cold iron could make them move to another port (with subsequent loss of jobs) as ports are in competition to attract new freight business. The cruise ship just passes on the cost to the passenger, freight rates have to be competative, so not all costs can be passed onto the end user. There are many things afoot in the marine engineering world to reduce emissions such as vessels run solely on LPG, but there are few places where they can bunker at this time, so it's a chicken and egg situation at the moment, owners would prefer LPG but until they can be assured of bunker availability they cannot risk building ships which rely solely on LPG. Then again owners are wary, look what happened to car fuel, we were all persuaded that diesel was better for our health than petrol and now there are more diesel cars than petrol and diesel is now up to 8p a litre dearer than petrol, when we were being persuaded to use diesel it was up to 15p a litre cheaper than petrol and recent studies have found that diesel is more detrimental to our well being than petrol and the Govt has just declared that it is going to make the difference bigger to entice people back to petrol (so they no doubt they can put up petrol prices later). I've just changed my car, I wanted petrol, but getting a used petrol model of the car I wanted was impossible, so had to settle for diesel or go way beyond my budget, which I wasn't prepared to do.

[j.sabourn]

I remember going into drydock on various ships where it was normal latterly to go on shore power. Years ago it was possible and probably still is to fill the after peak for circulation and go back onto ships power. What the ramifications of this are as regarding costs however wouldnt have a clue. Most tramp ships had no power re living conditions on board, and yet in a lot of cases years ago kept a skeleton crew on board. Nowadays would be living ashore. JS

---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------

Been working it out, when Cappy left the mighty Avonmoor and I had to go over to Hawthorne Leslies, was lying alongside the yard in the river finally, dead ship on shore power for a cabin heater. Was doing 3 days at a time with another mate living aboard was pretty rough. Used to go up the road to the first pub for lunch, however got more than 9 pence a day like Cappy got, think it was 2 bob or something, a can of beans on the cabin heater was supper or if could afford was back to the pub. The other mate who was relieving me was nearly always late on getting on board and always had some excuse for doing so, the #anker. What a dismal existance. JS

[happy daze john in oz]

Intersting about the 'Cold Iron Connection' said to be here in Oz. I have sailed from Melbourne and Sydney and no evidence of any such connection. Cruise ships now run on all electrtic generators fueld with diesel but the vapour from funnels is at times very hard to detect. As with modern cars the emissions now are minimal.
However some container ships do put out a lot of black smoke just prior to leaving port.

[John Arton]

In 2001 the IMO introduced strict NOX and SOX emissions controls from ships. These relate to shipping world wide. As an example any ship voyaging to Europe, 24 hours before passing USHANT will have to burning fuel that has less than 1% NOX and SOX in its emissions. These regulations can be further tightened in "Special Areas" of which KT in the I.O.W. will be aware as emissions from ferries there have to be 0.1% meaning they are running on Gas Oil and not Marine Diesel, with a subsequent rise in fuel costs and most likely passenger fares. To comply with all these regulations in force and in the pipeline means that nearly all new buildings are fitted with scrubbers in their exhausts and many existing ships are being retrofitted as this is a cheaper option than burning gas oil when in the emissions areas. In California State Law dictates NO emissions from ships in port and that is where some ports are supplying shore power to container ships especially whilst they are in port. The California emissions regulations now mean that any ship transiting the California coast line, either between Californian ports or en route to Northern USA and Canadian ports have to be around 200 miles off the coast before they can use fuel that has greater than 0.1% emissions of NOX and SOX.
These days with the regulations in force even those new mammoth container ships probably emit less fumes that your average 40 ton lorry and also with the ballast regulations in force now the population of Liverpool should have no worries about fumes from these mega ships nor about their waters being invaded by foreign aquatic species.
Also remember that these mega containers ships have resulted in transportation costs of all those absolute necessary items we buy from China being kept down at extremely low levels which means we can buy our Chinese made computers, toys etc. at rock bottom prices.
rgds
JA

[robpage]

Part of every development now is the assessment of Environmental Impact , This involves consultants , and is horrendously expensive , The last one I was involved with was near a busy overhead road , and teh site , as nowhere near the roads emission levels for chemical toxins or noise , both of these were exceeded by teh traffic , no one prosecuted the local council or the highways agency but we had a five figure expense to prove pour contribution to the levels in the ;locallity .

[j.sabourn]

#5... Used to be referred to as blowing tubes John, the same as you used to do every port when younger. Cheers John S

[Des Taff Jenkins]

HI All.
I was always under the impression that ships from around the 70s on, the exhaust fumes were returned to the engine and burned off or have i got the wrong end of the stick?
Happy Daze. We used to go on shore power with the Union steam if we were laid up waiting for a berth.
John S. Well remember being stabbed by the Dr in India, if someone complain about the blunt needle he would sharpen it on a file, did everyone with the same needle.
Cheers Des

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[John Arton]

John S. Well remember being stabbed by the Dr in India, if someone complain about the blunt needle he would sharpen it on a file, did everyone with the same needle.
Cheers Des
Saw the same thing in France in Port de Bouc where for some reason nearly all of us had to be inoculated for one of those diseases listed on International Vaccination Certificate. Think we were due to go down to Algeria or Morocco and for a load of us one of the vaccinations required had expired.
Anyway this very smart looking female French doctor was habbing us and used the same needle on a number of us, just changing the needle to fit on a new syringe full of the required vaccination. Hurt like hell and for a couple of days we had bruising around the injection site. She did though swab us all before injection and also cleaned the needle with medical alcohol before using it on the next guy.
Rgds
JA