mutiny

[Ivan Cloherty]

###i was to scared to hold her hand .......your a better man than i am gunga kong

Just as well you didn't destone your plums with her Kong, you'd have been fed to the pig in the Afterpeak, sure that was the 'Amity', I know went alongside one of the Chants at Greenhithe and they kept a pig in the Aftpeak and butchered it when it was too big to get out the access lid

[John Arton]

As far as I am aware there is no law against having a gun on board a ship but if the ship is U.K. registered then the owner of the gun presumably the Captain) would have to hold a gun licence which could be difficult to obtain as what reason are you applying for the licence are you going to put down on the application form for the licence, shoot a crew member if he mutineers? Also the gun and ammunition would have to be kept in separate locked cabinets and declared on the stores declaration at every port.
The armed guards hired to protect ships transiting the pirate areas can only carry arms if the vessels flag state has passed regulations allowing the employment of such personnel and the U.K. only passed that legislation about 12 months ago and it is strictly controlled with only recognised security companies being allowed on board with armed men.
The only time I saw a gun on board was on an ex. Norwegian bulker that had a powerful air rifle on board. The captain, being RNR thought it would be good fun to set up a target and have practise shots on the aft deck (the ship was a 105000 ton bulker). As mate I objected to this saying we were sailors not soldiers but he poophooed the idea and said it would be perfectly safe with him in charge. He set up the target and had the first go and promptly hit the third Eng. who was sitting on the bitts having smoko, one deck below the target, in the back. Caused no injury beyond a bruise as his boiler suit took most of the impact but that was the end of any further target practice. Hatch cleaning gangs in New Orleans always brought a shotgun with them which they used to blast off the rust scale in hard to reach areas when getting hatches on big bulkers ready for grain.
The only other time I knew of a gun on board was in my last company where a slightly mad Norwegian captain always had a gun with him as he claimed that the Filipino crew would one day mutiny. On his last trip he rejoined and gave the Chief Engineer a gun saying that they needed to be prepared as he knew that this was going to be the trip they mutinied. He then went AWOL with all the ships cash and holed up in a hotel in Rotterdam with a couple of hookers. When the super arrived on board to sort things out (ship due to sail) the C/Eng asked him what he should do with the gun, Super went white and the gun was quietly tossed into the dock.
As regards the demarcation between the ratings and Officers I never came across that as although having separate messes etc. we would all get together on Barbie nights, race nights etc. at sea. I only sailed on 4 ships with a full U.K. crew and it was only on the Empress of Canada that I experienced any trouble with crew members. Once being attacked by a drunken night steward whilst doing rounds at 0200 and finding him in an area he was not allowed into and he refusing to leave and also once finding the whole deck watch partying on the small deck at the bottom of the main mast, instead of doing look out duties or cleaning duties. On the Beaver boats we had some great lads who when on watch with them we always had a good chat about any subject that came to mind and off duty often mingled together in the bars. I always thought that C.P. was a very cosmopolitan outfit especially when it went through a period of rapid growth in the 70's and there was a big influx of personnel from many different companies. The odd officer who came in with a snooty outlook usually did not last more than one trip before either changing his attitude or leaving.
rgds
JA

[Jim Brady]

Did'nt the officers on the Titanic have guns when organising the lifeboats ???
Regards.
Jim.B.

[robpage]

During the evacuation, Lightoller took charge of lowering the lifeboats on the port side of the Titanic. He helped to fill several lifeboats with passengers and launched them. Lightoller interpreted Smith's order for "the evacuation of women and children" as essentially "women and children only". As a result, Lightoller lowered lifeboats with empty seats if there were no women and children waiting to board When he attempted to launch Lifeboat 2, he found it to be occupied already by 25 male passengers and crewmen. He ordered them out of the boat at gunpoint, telling them: "Get out of there, you damned cowards! I'd like to see every one of you overboard!". He then filled the boat with women and children, but could not find enough of them to fill the boat. When Boat 2 was lowered, there were only 17 people aboard, out of a capacity of 40.

I do not believe that unlike the film , it was actually fired

[Captain Kong]

In the film it was the Scottish Mate, Mr. Murdoch, who fired the revolver at the Passengers and then shot himself in the head and then fell over the wall.
A few years ago his relatives from his village in Scotland, had a court case aginst the film maker as it Never happened.
Another Hollywood legend distorting the Truth.
Cheers
Brian.

[Keith Tindell]

On the Durham Trader 1962, the skipper had a .22 cartridge rifle, which nowadays in the UK is hard to get a licence for i believe. The skipper had used it from the wing of the bridge while we were stopped for engine repairs, he was shooting sharks, as the guys were fishing for same, also shooting at beer cans. Just before we paid off in Hamburg he sold it to one of the AB`s, and was now concerned to get it through customs at Dover. This was when they put a chalk mark on your bag going through, we thought we would be smart and sneak the bag on the trolley which had the gun in it, some chance, they were on to it straight away, and the gun was discovered. However apart from a bollicking they took the gun, and he was told if he still wanted it, there was a fee to be paid, i dont think the AB ever got it back. Just imagine what would happen in that situation today, probably locked up as a terrorist, KT

[robpage]

William McMaster "Will" Murdoch, RNR (28 February 1873 – 15 April 1912) was a Scottish sailor who served as First Officer aboard the RMS Titanic, where he was employed by the White Star Line. He is notable as the officer in charge on the bridge the night when the Titanic collided with an iceberg in the Atlantic Ocean. He was one of the 1,500 people who died in the disaster.In two films about the Titanic, Murdoch was portrayed shooting passengers and himself during the sinking of the ship. However, this was based on rumour and no credible evidence has ever surfaced to indicate that any crew member of Titanic, let alone Murdoch specifically, ever shot passengers or committed suicide in such a manner. Murdoch's nephew objected to this portrayal. Surviving eyewitnesses also reported that Murdoch actually worked diligently until the end, and was seen alive in the water as the ship went down . Murdoch, with an "ordinary master's certificate" and a reputation as a "canny and dependable man", had climbed through the ranks of the White Star Line to become one of its foremost senior officers. He was selected to be Titanic's Chief Officer, with 16 years of maritime experience now behind him.
Murdoch had originally been assigned as the ship's Chief Officer, though when the Titanic's skipper Edward J. Smith brought Henry Wilde, his Chief from his previous command, Murdoch was temporarily reduced to First while First Officer Charles Lightoller was in turn reduced to Second. The original Second, David Blair, would sit out the voyage altogether while the rest of the ship's complement of officers remained unchanged.

[EIFION]

Everards AMITY was a bridge amidships engines aft coastal tanker. built 1945 as the " Empire Tedassa" . She was not a chant, which were much smaller and in Everards ownership were usually given names beginning with "F". She lasted until 1945

[robpage]

A .22 Cartridge rifle could be centre or rim fire cartridges , you would need a Firearms certificate in the UK for these . The Rimfire ammunition primarily differs from centrefire ammunition because the cartridges are not reloadable. They do not have a central primer in the end of the case, instead the rim of the cartridge contains priming compound which ignites when the rim of the cartridge is struck. These are widely used in target shooting and pest control . The Firearms certificate is not easy to obtain , you need two good referees , a reason to want the gun in the first place , and an approved security safe , and a police inspection . Whilst it is not easy to obtain , if you tick all the right boxes it i s not too difficult either , Lengthy in some police areas , and for hunting , Rabbits , or Foxes as vermin control , the Police would want to inspect the land where you intend to shoot , to ensure the bullet did not carry over too far if you miss . It is too small for Deer , a .243 being the smallest allowed , and for vermin control I would use a .177 . The Police Checks exclude anyone with a criminal record over a certain custodial sentence too

[Ivan Cloherty]

Everards AMITY was a bridge amidships engines aft coastal tanker. built 1945 as the " Empire Tedassa" . She was not a chant, which were much smaller and in Everards ownership were usually given names beginning with "F". She lasted until 1945

Didn't say 'Amity' was a Chant, said I was 'ALONGSIDE' a Chant at Greenithe, I know what a Chant is, I sailed in Everards