Jolly Jack

[j.sabourn]

After being retired 10 years I quite often ruminate on the goods and bads on retirement. The goods would be the memories of life before retirement which would involve both I suppose. Things hard to explain, the freedom one felt on clearing the land and gaining the open sea, and leaving all the corruption behind. The stink of the likes of Bombay 2 days out before you ever made a landfall so knew you were getting close. Making a landfall off Tokyo Bay and the sun over Mount Fuji. Running in to Bad weather with no choice but to ride it out, and having the faith in the ship to do so. The memories are never ending. When you get big exposes in the papers about children employed in the sex trade etc etc, etc, We saw this 5o years ago and was always there before our time also, the likes of the Casbah and all the houses of ill repute, children being offered for sex, its still all there regardless of what the western press puts out with its so called news, they are way behind the times as usual. The corrupt officials customs immigration harbour masters in some of these 3rd. world countries who had to be paid off to get any cooperation. there are all good mixed with bad memories. Whenever people talk about education it would be my way to refer them to any merchant seaman who was and is probably one of the best informed people today on the world and its so called social standing. The best place for a seaman however was always back at sea away from the so called delights and definite corruption of the land. And to get his head cleared before trying shore life for a short time once more. Cheers John Sabourn

[Tony Wilding]

True what you say John, a Merchant Seaman knew a lot more of what went on in the World than most Politicians, many of whom had never been outside the UK, especially Captains and Mates who had to deal first hand with bribery and corruption abroad. expect a book could be written on some of the corrupt practices, some of the stories told on here have been eye openers. and i expect in some ports still goes on. some Countries Corruption is a way of life, .

[Keith Tindell]

An old shipmate of mine , now lives in Canada, some years ago went back and did a university course, he said at the start he was a bit overwhelmed with all the youngsters and their qualifications, but soon realised that his experiences as a seaman, plus the many many books he had read at sea, gave him a head start on them all, in fact after qualifying for his degree the university employed him to lecture. KT

[Ivan Cloherty]

True what you say John, a Merchant Seaman knew a lot more of what went on in the World than most Politicians, many of whom had never been outside the UK, especially Captains and Mates who had to deal first hand with bribery and corruption abroad. expect a book could be written on some of the corrupt practices, some of the stories told on here have been eye openers. and i expect in some ports still goes on. some Countries Corruption is a way of life, .

Tony first and foremost it's nice to see you are settling down, it does take some time to assimilate all the local ways, but at least you are in a place more used to dealing with the outside world than others.

I lived in Pakistan for four years, a cultural shock in many ways, although being a seasone seaman I was prepared for it. Although we encountered corruption at sea, mostly we Customs and Immigration in Pakistan it was a way of life and accepted as the norm. No one would accept a cheque except the electricity company (I kid you not) if the cheque bounced it got cut off and never re-instated except for a huge bribe.

My predecessor in my position, who left before I arrived, never collected the money owing to the company for at least two years, it amounted to a fair sum from all and sundry, we are talking thousands upon thousands of Pounds, but was always paid in Rupees there being little Foreign exchange in the country. I started going around to the various offices trying to collect what was owed, at first with little success, until I suggested that I had a gang of Pathans from the the North who were willing to collect on my behalf for a percentage, still no money coming. I had inherited with my bungalow a chowkador (watchman) who idolised my wife (because she was kind to him) and who would have killed me had I upset her, anyway, at first she was wary of him but he guarded her wherever she went and would not let anyone hassle her (but I digress) Well Lal (his name) was 6' 4" tall and about 5' across and always carried his musket wherever he went, not even the Police stopped him. Well I took Lal along with me to the offices on my next round of calls, he didn't have to say anything, I repeated my warnings about the gang from the North. It wasn't long before suitcases of money started to appear in my office, counting it would have been offensive and as long as it looked right, you accepted it graciously. Some tried to pay by cheque (which would have bounced off the moon) so I took it back to the writers accommpanied by Lal, the suitcase appeared next day. I used all the suitcase money to pay the people the money we owed to them, and that's the way a lot of business was done.

It was pretty much the same in India but cheques were much more acceptable, but they were always discounted by the sender, his commission for paying you most of the money he owed you!.

When I lived in Dubai, I found the UAE Arab very tustworthy, and have agreed contracts for 20,000 tonne lots of cement on the back of a cigarette packet (True) to get things moving, as paperwork notoriously slow in those days in UAE offices. As long as you had that cigarette packet with the contractors signature, you got paid without fail. When the Arabs started to Employ Palestians and Lebanese (because they were English and Arabic speaking) things started to change and you would not do business anymore unless it was by Letter of Credit because the trust had now gone.

Corruption makes the world go round, alas without it, in one form or another, the world would see no cross trade. The individual can be the most honest person you could wish to meet, but somewhere along the line someone will make that poor persons honesty count for nought.

[Tony Wilding]

Hi Ivan, yes i know what you mean, 4 years ago i travelled India And Nepal, 7 months there, all over North to South, Bay of Bengal to Arabian Sea, certainly opened my eyes to bribery and corruption, everyone wants a percentage, example, taxi to a hotel, driver wants commission from hotel, hotel ups the price to cover the commission paid to taxi driver, they never lose out, in India if you have money you can buy anything, was offered twice an Indian Driving Licence, going rate was 1000 Rupees, the haggling was a novelty to start, but that soon wore off, they do not do anything for nothing, booked a overnight bus from Goa To Bangalore, from an agency, found out if i got it at bus station the price was half i paid, Taxis and Auto Rickshaws were complete Rogues, refuse to use meters. met a few genuine Indians had a good friend in Goa, also in Tamil Nadu, Mamalapuram, a small fishing town almost wiped out by the Tsunami, many friends there, mostly Fisherman, were only too happy to take me fishing with them, never asked for a reward, if given it was accepted gratefully, not many days went by where a dozen or so Tiger Prawns were not left at our hotel, found most Tamils very nice People. was a great experience, away from tourist centers, apart from the never ending Curry, YUK, even a packet of Peanuts was Spiced. Tony W

[j.sabourn]

Ivan, a few years ago with the so called misappropiation of funds by the Australian Wheat Board to Iraqi givernment officials as Bribes, it made me wonder on the knowledge of the public in general. Are they that green that they think business with these countrys is all above board. It goes on all the time. We have seen it during our working lives in one form or another and have lived with it. I sometimes think the western world doesnt want to know it goes on and want to live in their little Utopia. I should of imagined if the AWB hadnt bribed certain officials they would have lost the contract probably to another country offering bigger incentives. This is the way as you know business is conducted in certain areas of the world.
Cheers John Sabourn

[Ivan Cloherty]

John, I think this is the way business is still conducted in most parts of the world and the west wasn't (and isn't) exempt, the French were, and probably still are masters of the game, as are the USA in arms sales. Yes I also think that most of the public assume that goods are bought and sold on the merit of the product rather than the size of Swiss Bank Accounts and thus it will ever be

[Rodney Mills]

I lived in Iran for almost four years. The principal company (?) we did business with was the former Iranian Imperial Navy. Try as I might I could never invite a naval officer and his wife out to dinner. They were so incorruptible and it puzzled me, finally I found out why. A former Commander-in Chief, a four star admiral, lived way beyond his means. It seems the Shah's wife had been eye-balling a ring with a massive diamond, for sale in the millions of dollars. Seems she was dithering over whether to buy it or not. The Grand Admiral and spouce are invited to a dinner reception at the palace and low and behold Mrs. Admiral is wearing the ring. Queenie whispers in the Shah's ear, Shah engaged a Scotland Yard Detective Inspector to find out how come the Grand Admiral could afford said bauble for the Mrs.. The Inspector set-up a sting. A messenger boy, never seen by the Admiral before knocks on his door and hands the Admiral a sealed envelope containing cash. The Admiral opens the envelope, thumbs the cash, sticks it in his pocket and say's "Tell whoever sent this it's not enough", and slams the door in the messenger's face. The Admiral is tried, found guilty and sentenced. I expect a few atta-boys from y'all for the following info. Every rial he had in the bank, his pocket or squirreled away... confiscated, houses, cars, baubles, all clothing except for one plain outfit for the wife and three kids, said family kicked out into the streets. The Admiral is reduced in rank to ORDINARY SEAMAN and commanded to serve in that capacity for the rest of his life...which was two days. He killed his wife and himself. I do not know what became of the children. I guess the moral of the story was don't piss-off the Shah"s wife.

Cheers, Rodney

[j.sabourn]

Rodney, I spent 3 days in Tehran waiting for a flight out as was being transferred to another vessel in Australia. This was shortly after the demise of the Shah. Finally getting to the final clearance at the airport was told I had to pay money to this immigration official or he wouldnt clear me out. I lost my temper and told him he was getting nothing and the argument was getting heated, Fortuanetly the Agent stepped in and paid the bribe. Good job he did as would probably have finished up in the caboose and the key thrown away. Cheers John Sabourn.

[leratty]

John you made me laugh re "After being retired 10 years I quite often ruminate on the goods and bads on retirement.". Have to say I will be 66 in a couple of days & have no intention of retiring have not idea how I could spend the time. I enjoy our business, all the day to day dealings, the people we deal with from every country on the planet, also the visiting of many (hate the flying part though am over it) if I can I shall fall off the perch working.

Why do so many people retire, why not start a business maybe unlike us for the profit just to keep one occupied & active still in the loop day to day?

Ivan I admire you taking up a post in Pakistan, crikey that would be a true hardship post. We stopped dealing there about ten years ago just too hard dealing with them & their collective honesty was problematic. Must say I loved the story of debt collection too much.

I read there was a superb over 100+ year old Pakistani brewery producing top notch world class Pale Ale & Scotch. Amusingly it is in the same building it was when the British were there next to a military head quarters. I saw & of course tasted it at a booze fair recently & when asked was told they had no one importing it to this part of the world. So I thought hmm why not do it? Well we are speaking now so shall see the owners are the same family since partition, very nice, very polite with a sense of humour so if we pull it off shall advise how they want payment, i.e. on a/c or in coin of the realm prior to shipment (: If I have a problem maybe you could contract Lal to us? Richard