Merchant Navy Defence

[j.sabourn]

I see a Thread has been opened re. the convoy system starting about 19 13/14. Has anyone done the M.N. Defence Course which was rushed through in 1961/62 when the strong possibility of another world war was very close due to the import of nuclear weapons into Cuba. For those living in my area the NE coast of the UK the course was done on HMS Calliope on the Tyne and we received 5 guineas from the Admiralty for the weeks instruction on ABC warfare (Atomic, Biological and Chemical warfare) also on gunsights etc etc. However although the sealed orders that every British ship carried for a number of years, some of the contents were disclosed to us, and the Admiralty were still insisting on the convoy system as the best measure for safety. During the course it was stressed that overhead nuclear strikes would probably wipe out a convoy en masse, and this was brought up that maybe it would be better to go it alone, however the navy were sticking to the old and tried methods of the past. Has anyone done any courses after this period of the 60"s or are members of any naval groups or reservists, if so is this thinking of the Admiralty still the same in our modern days. It was also stressed that 2/3rds of the uk would be wiped out on the first strike, there would be no ports as such and discharging onto the beaches via lighters was a strong possibility. This was in 1961. I think the consequences would be 100 times worse now. Regards John Sabourn PS this is another piece of paper when clearing out brings back old memories.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Never did the actual course, but on every ship from 1954 - 1958 had lectures onboard about countermeasures (more hope than reality) and many practice drills which took some time. All very interesting but I suspect fairly useless if ever caught in atomic fallout. Thank god it was never put to the test, but as most of us were WWII survivors we all took it seriously.

[j.sabourn]

Think it may have been up until the late 70"s or even later that all British ships carried the sealed envelope with all the ciphers in etc. Also if you ever saw a couple of sealed wooden boxes in one of the stores or even under the focsle hd. these contained other gear such as hand held indicators, you held one of these under a persons chin like the kids used to do with a buttercup, this gave you a reading of how many rotogens a person had received and if it was fatal or not, if he had a limited time he was put in exposed positions (unknown to him) to man the gun or whatever needed doing outside. All this was in theory and pleased it never came to anything. Suppose the pollies would have been sitting in their bunkerproof shelters under Westminster as they would have to survive to carry on with their good work. Cheers John Sabourn

[Captain Gordon Whittaker]

I well remember attending the course in Granton, Edinburgh. We played with geiger counters and personal dosimeters for radioactive readings. We also learned of the code encrypting packages carried by all merchant ships. There was a dummy exercise some time later and I was designated as Code Officer to compose a message which "Sparks" sent off to the Government department concerned, then I had to decode the reply. I was the only deck officer on board who had done the course, and even the Master had no clue how to use the code package! It was all a bit scaremongering in case the balloon went up with the big mushroom cloud. Fire hoses were supposed to wash away the radiation and render us safe.

[j.sabourn]

Nice to know other people did the course as well, was dragged off during my leave to do. As we were trading with Cuba at the time all the so called secret stuff was taken off vessel, the same if we went to any Russian or Satellite port. Made me think at the time all this so called modern warfare and part of the course was with the old gunsights I think the maxinum was the 400 knot sight. Planes at that time were doing 5 or 600 knots. I dont think many people realize how close the world was to disaster at that time, the yanks did and think they would have gone all the way. Fortuanetly Krushev backed down. Remember being interviewed in Panama by I assume the CIA about the Russian vessels in port with us at various times, but as all their cargo was containerized nobody really knew much. Regards John Sabourn.

[Captain Kong]

On the VLCCs I was on in the 70s we had the code books and had to report any type of Russian vessels, type, description, location and activity. The Master had the code books and Sparky did the rest.
I never went on any MN Defence Course, tho` I once did Gunnery courses at HMS Excellent, Whale Island in Portsmouth.in 1950 and 51. There they had the Dome, and with twin Bofors we learned how to shoot down attacking German planes that were projected on the Dome. Very exciting for a Sea Cadet.
Brian

[John Pruden]

how many Russian fishing boats{yeah} that had more aerials than an aircraft carrier were on the sea's in the 60s? some blue funnel ships had some device for radiation weather it was a sea water sampler or air testing devise i cant remember? some parts of the grey matter has gone?jp

[j.sabourn]

John as I said in previous threads I worked for just over 4 years for the MOD on a diving support ship. As I think the Secrecy bit is now past its used by date, our job mainly was we were based off the west coast of Scotland. I could tell all sorts of yarns about different incidences but might be accused of embarrasing certain fairly high persons in the R.N. although should imagine they are retired by now. As said our main job was for the Nuclear subs when they went out on patrol. There was always a presence of Russian Trawlers off the western Islands with all the antenna as you say, they were always closely monitored by the RN.The minehunters used to go out and find the listening devises they used to drop onto the seabed on the approaches to the Clyde. They then would drop a dan buoy on same and we would go and do a four point moor send the saturation divers down to recover. They were trying to plot the various courses these subs initially made also the engine noise, as you know every vessel has a distinct noise and can be reconized by same. I have no doubt we did the same thing to their subs etc when leaving Murmansk and such places. These listening devises were quite small and usually about the size of two shoe boxes.
I think the russians knew all about this and was tit for tat so to speak. As this was over 30 years ago I think we might be out of the Official Secrets limits. Regards John Sabourn.

[Captain Gordon Whittaker]

I recall berthing in Hull, late 60,s, with very little quay space available so they put a Russian Fish Factory ship alongside me. I invited the Officers aboard and they ate like starving wolves! They had only those Russian ciggies which were mostly cardboard tubes with 30% dry tobacco. They were awful! We gave them some good hospitality but it was all supervised bt a mysterious unidentified Officer, whom we soon sussed as the KGB man. We visited them that night and had unlimited voidka, (NEAT)!, with no mixers. We were not allowed access to the Bridge, Engine Room, or 60% of the accomodation. At all times we were observed by this "Party Member". We were offered salted herrings with cold potatoes, washed down with vodka. When we brought a few cases of soft drinks and beer on board, they disappeared as if by magic. Our "Sparks" reckoned there were at least 20 radios due to the array of different aerials. No chance of looking though. Apart from the spooky KGB guy, they were pretty decent guys, about normal for seafarers. It was certainly a different experience, and I wonder what it would have been like with mobile phone cameras? Happy days remembered.

[j.sabourn]

Every Russian ship had its commisar its political officer during that period. I was on a Russian ship in the 90"s but could not spot him so maybe the practice is now void. Cheers John Sabourn