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Les, if I remember rightly it wasn't so much a question of insurance, anything over 12 passengers and the ship had to carry a qualified medical practitioner, therefore incurring extra wages, accommodation and an upgraded hospital etc, the cost would not have been recovered by the additional passenger fare(s). I'm sure someone will have more official informationQuote:
Originally Posted by Les Woodard
Used to hear that as well Ivan, this was probably on British ships Insured through Lloyds. Imagine others registerd elsewhere this law would no doubt differ. Cheers John Sabourn.
The reason why cargo ships carried passengers were to give them priority in berthing in certain ports giving the company an advantage in dicharging but 12 passengers was later phased out (as some of the lucky few had the privilege of moving up) as schedules were unpredctable and subjected to change but some companys cept the owners suite just in case.I agree that the 12 passanger limit was due to have to carry a doctor.:smileyship:
The rumour that went round Tony on the ship I was on was to pay our wages. I must say in 1967/68 the price per passenger was 100 US dollars a day. They were all except 1 double berth cabins for passengers. If they wanted to travel alone in a double berth they had to pay 200 US a day. The costs have certainly come down since then. We carried 2 sets of Articles 1 British for the West Indian crew. We were on Liberian agreement. As at that time think there was 4.5 BWI dollars to the pound, the crew were quite well off. We were paid in US Dollars. Cheers John Sabourn
I think every one has heard the generalisation that the maxinum number of passengers was 12 before a doctor was carried. I have seen a N.Sea supply boat bringing in more than 12 offshore workers, as heli flights were delayed for some reason. The ship was fined but believe this was due to the accomodation not being certified for this amount. In theory a Russian vessel I was on had 38 passengers as this was the full Russian crew, the Australian crew consisted of 8. Before flying up to Singapore I tried to get the charterers to employ a Doctor, this they would not do, however they gave me permission to take up a medic if I could find one, which I did to their surprise. I have been on Seismic ships with over the 12, which were mainly surveyors and such. I was on one a Norwegian which carried a Doctor. Other seismic vessels with larger contingents did not, there was however usually a medic employed, who was classed as the Safety Officer as well. If I still had my Shipmasters business book it might be in there. However I generally think it would be the flag which was the deciding factor. Think Brian is likely to still have shipmasters business so he may haver a look if he reads this. Cheers John Sabourn
I recall that on the colonial run to NZ and Oz that we would take on board a doctor who worked his passage as a freebie to get to the UK. I was told that he was paid a shilling a week just to conform that he was a member of the crew and would be available to any crew member that needed medical attention.
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John I have..........
"The National Maritime Board , Year Book 1958, Summary of Agreements"
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National Maritime Board , Merchant Navy Established Service Scheme. January 1952..
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I have gone through them both from cover to cover, and can find nothing at all on rules for employing Doctors, Nurses or any Medical Staff or their conditions of employment or salaries.
Every type of trade:-Foreign going, cargo ships, tankers, coastal trades Baltic trades and so on etc, with the relevant pay scales for each individual department, and associated benefits etc.
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The only odd one was on page 45 on the 1958 year book where it states that the Standard Rates of Pay on Foreign Going Passenger Liners was ...... There was no standard rate of pay.
In 1918 the Navigatiing Officers and Engineering Officers Panel failed to reach an agreement on the rates of pay on passenger Liners.
Again in 1922 The Ship owners representatives "have no intention of applying the cargo rates to passenger liners but reserve the right to apply any agreed reductions to Passenger Liners "
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So did the Officers on the Passenger Liners have less pay than the cargo ship Officers ??
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. When I sailed on a SAM boat of Blue Funnel, no passengers, we had a Male Nurse on board. I also think he would have helped out with paper work. He treated me a few times for small injuries.
On the New Zealand Star in 1953/4 we had 12 passengers but no Doctor, when I came out of hospital when my mate was drowned a passenger put me to bed and looked after me, she was Rosemary Garfield Todd, her father was Prime Minister of Rhodesia at the time.
When I was on the Adelaide Star in 1957 we had 12 passengers outward bound, No Doctor,. Homeward bound there was a Doctor going back to the UK..
In 1959, three trips on the Good Hope Castle, we had 12 passengers but no Doctor, we had a few injuries that last trip and we muddled through with the Bosun who broke his leg in three places, the completely wrong treatment, The Captain said he had only sprained his leg, and we had to walk him up and down the poop deck several times a day, the Bosun screaming in pain. "Dont be so soft its only a sprain". we put him ashore in Singapore and they confirmed the breaks.
So I do not know if there was a hard and fast Rule on the carriage of Doctors,
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I seem to remember around that time if a ship had 99 people on board, passengers and crew, a Doctor was required and heard that a crew member had sometimes had to be paid off to avoid paying a Doctor.
Cheers
Brian.
Brian any sort of professional medical help on a ship was always very welcome. Especially by the 2nd. Mate whose job it invariably came down to. The right hand upper quadrant used to get a lot of use on some ships. Cheers John Sabourn.
My first ship was what was classed as a 'Banana Boat'. It didn't mean we carried bananas, it was apparently a term used to describe a cargo ship that carried fare paying passengers. We were always led to believe the the carrying of the thirteenth fare paying passenger made the requirement for a doctor obligatory under Board of Trade ruling. Interestingly the number of supernumeraries carried was irrelevant. When we sailed with just 12 passengers a doctor was not carried.
As suggested in a couple of the posts a new thread has been started about women at sea and can be found here