UNIONS, The ITF - Did they do any Good

[Capt Bill Davies]

Following on from the thread 'What happened' the above title came to mind as it is my firm belief that Unions and the ITF were probably as guilty as anyone in expediting the demise of the British seafarer.

I can remember on many occasions in the early 70s when Master of various vessels (often the only round eye onboard) finding the occasional ITF official 'stirring' up trouble in the ratings mess. A perfectly contented crew can easily be turned by some eloquent Australian/European union official.


Brgds

Bill

[Jim Brady]

We have had a number of Foreign Flag vessels impounded here in recent times because of the plight of the crews on those ships.It was only through the intervention of the Unions that the crews were fed,conditions made a bit better and eventually the crews being paid and repatriated to their country of origin.The most recent one I think was called something Sky,I'm sure Gulliver will remember it as I think he followed the story from the Liverpool echo.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Gulliver]

We have had a number of Foreign Flag vessels impounded here in recent times because of the plight of the crews on those ships.It was only through the intervention of the Unions that the crews were fed,conditions made a bit better and eventually the crews being paid and repatriated to their country of origin.The most recent one I think was called something Sky,I'm sure Gulliver will remember it as I think he followed the story from the Liverpool echo.
Regards.
Jim.B.

HERE 's the thread,Jim.
(Thankfully the newspaper & video links havn't yet expired)

Kind Regards

[Gwyn Lewis]

I remember at the age of 16 at oddesy works training school for Blue Funnel. Been told to attend a large union meeting in Birkenhead and John Prescot was talking on the dock in one of the sheds, and telling us all to vote YES for anyone from any country to sail on a british ship. I was very young and knew nothing of unions power. The vote came in as a yes. Maybe that was the start of the end for british seamen.At the time many off the older seamen there said it was a big fix. I may be wrong it was along time ago. Still dont like Prescott to this day.???

[Capt Bill Davies]

We have had a number of Foreign Flag vessels impounded here in recent times because of the plight of the crews on those ships.It was only through the intervention of the Unions that the crews were fed,conditions made a bit better and eventually the crews being paid and repatriated to their country of origin.The most recent one I think was called something Sky,I'm sure Gulliver will remember it as I think he followed the story from the Liverpool echo.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Jim,

The 'Most Sky' was well publicised and seems to fit the template for most ships experiencing this type of problem i.e. she was a 'singleton'. I understand she was owned by the uncle of the Ukrainian Master.
It would appear that the local Nautical Institute and the Flying Angel (Seaforth) did more to assist the crew in welfare contribution than the Union did. It might be worth saying here that the MCA also assisted in an official and unofficial capacity in that two of their senior officials are Flying Angel (Stella Maris) helpers and proactive in the welfare of that vessel. T
The vessel is still lying close to the Duke Street Bridge on the Wallasey side.

So Jim, in times of distress, as in this topic you have highlighted, it is evident that we as seafarers look after our own without any help from Unions.

Brgds

Bill


PS: 'Singleton' is a one ship owner. Please do not confuse with Owner/Master which is obviously different and applies to short sea traders operated by the Owner who is also the Master and of an extremely high standard. The ship is his home

[robpage]

I have been a trade Union Member all my life , and although retired still am a fully paid up member of a union . Trade Unions seemed in my eyes to go wrong when te greedy educated socialists took control , they thought that they knew best for the working man , and the likes of Scargill , Prescott and hundreds of others prospered at the trough , whilst their members suffered , job losses , wage freezes , the hand over of their jobs to foreign nationals . But hey !! they were there for our good , and many believed them , much like the fairy story of the Emperor's New Clothes , We stood there starkers and the ones who tailored the demise prospered .

BUT to do without unions , federations and the like , well , I have just spent some time in Virginia and there was a silent majority of slaves who doid not complain about being transported from the Jungles of West Africa to the Plantatiomns of Virginia . The IMF did not stir them into grumbelling , thee were no Australian of British agitators inciting them to revolt , so their silence must have portrayed agreement of their fate , or was it that in the traditions of the Royal Navy of the time their tongue was held by fear of the lash .

Just because the crew are too frightened to complain does not make teh conditions that they are working under right . Sorry Bill I just cannot agree with that . It is like saying that an Albanian girl working as a prostitute in London is happy because she knows the "Gang " running her won't torch her mothers house in Albania .

If Prescott allowing foreign workers in had stopped exploitation he would have been hailed a Saint , as it was , in my opinion it speeded the decline of the British seafarer . In the early seventies when teh pay differential of Zulu crew was highluighted by the IMF , the shipowner U-C took them off and put British on Board , that squeezed the margins tighter and teh ships went , Their ( Zulu ) conditions were ten times better than what some of the Far Eastern crews get some forty years later .

What will correct it will be like many hindsight solutions , The Herald of Free Enterprise , being a classic example , is when a lot of people die and it gets world news , a huge catastrophy aided by poorly trained crew ith no environmental awareness . A Cruise ship sinking and all the stewards get off , and the bloods drown . That will be the only way international action will prevail and the problem of cheap less skilled seamen resolved for good .

[alf corbyn]

i once went to a NUS meeting in the pub just outside the dock gates (kgv) it was a shambles as the dockers were taking the p**ss all the time. only the NUS would hold a meeting in a public house. alf

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi Shipmates, Hi Captain Bill Davies,The union of seaman were at that time only a small outfit but part of the brotherhood of unions but all was not well in the camp? backhanders were common place by men looking for work on ships,{Many from arab countries e.t.c.} and shipowners who gave donations to officals of the union for charity?and seamans welfare? But they were haylcon days grabbing what was about for the few in power, Not the lot of the honest British seaman bad ships, bad conditions were his lot This , would have been much worst without the B.O.T. and unions but with the advent of F.O.C. Have you ever asked yourself this question? What would happen to the foreign crews if Britain was at war again today ? would they still be on our ships or run away to they own countries?

[Capt Bill Davies]

Hello Louis,

Interesting question which I would respond by saying that if Britain was at war tomorrow they would be in a mess, as we do not even have a Royal Navy that is capable of supporting us. No point in worrying about our Merchant Navy.

But there is light at the end of the tunnel if you believe the Unions, Numast et al. The British Flag is growing! It is just so sad there are no Brits onboard.

Brgds

Bill

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi shipmates Hi Captain bill davies you have hit the nail on the head, no good for us to worry anymore I would not be called up unless the bottom of the barrel was needed, our once great merchant navy has gone into the history books? But I would not be at easy on any merchant ship TODAY in any conflict with out British officers at the helm, and the crew of british seaman} any colour}t but would only sign on under a new fair union with proper rules and B.O.T. safety equipment {No salt horse or weevils in the bread, or donkeys breakfast} and no bowls of rice for wages{ ship owners take note}