Printable View
It still goes ontoday ashore as well. My brother, an electrican, cannot get work unless he is a paid up union member. But even that does not gaurentee he will get a good job, the best in construction, go to the mates of the shop stewards and union officials.
But what is the current staus of the Seamans Union, does it still exixt at all and if so in what state?
Hi Shipmates' Hi Happy john in oz, My next door neighbour mike cant get a job he a time served city of guilds carpenter and joiner or my mate steven a time served bricklayer, Why because cheap unskilled eastern european workers will work for £5.00 an hours pay and no tax and go back home with the money,so buy to let landlords are having a great time, This is what happen to our British Merchant navy no unions to stop this here ?all small british building local companys and one man bands will go to the wall unless this is stopped but like the ship-owners the buy to let land-lords are making big profits in the short term but at what cost to the U.K.???? In the future no jobs in building for our young people F.O.C. again??? Divide and take over:mad:
During my time at sea(70 through to 90) I was a member of the MNAOA.As Tony remarked, we all were-it just seemed the thing to do.I never liked the unions particularly as they were always associated with the Labour party,which is not close to my heart.
The only reason I was a member was to get compensation for death or injury should I need it,or legal representation.
I am aware of course that the union was instrumental in securing us with quite a few beneficial pay increases and enhanced conditions,so I have no complaints.
I rarely ever saw a Union Rep aboard ship,but it has to be said on the rare occasions I saw one(or usually several together) was when I visited my company's offices in London-- when quite often they'd be noticed going out for 'hospitality' with all the senior personnel from the Company.
Employers and Unions worked hand in glove it seemed...
From what I've read the British NUS was thoroughly disreputably corrupt at senior and middle levels and behaved shamefully to it's members.
The ITF today seems to look after it's seafaring members at least,and I suppose those third world and Eastern Bloc members need them.
Gulliver
I remember in the 50-s, "sir" Tom Yates, who owned a big night club near Dover, gave the Cream Union job to his son, who had never set foot on a ship in his life, never been to sea, the Job was in Sydney which include a BIG house overlooking Sydney Harbour, in Millionaires Row in Vaucluse. I doubt he ever saw any seafarers when they were in Sydney with a beef. There was always a cry, when confronted by a seaman, "Me hands are tied lad, cant do noffin."
I remember after the strikes in the 60s, ships were supposed to have a union delegate on board ships.
My brother and I joined a big VLCC in Fawley in 1975, near Southampton. first day on board I asked who was the Union Delegate aboard this one. We dont have one they all said. I called a meeting in the Mess Room, hardly anyone bothered to turn up, not interested they all said. Out of all the `Sailors`, Firemen, mechanics, Stewards and Cooks, only my brother and I were Union Members. They were all ex Royal Navy. the Company had done a big recruiting campaign in the Navy to get more seafaring Staff.
They were not interested in Unions, they had never had one and conditions on tankers were far better than they could have dreamed of. I phoned the Southampton Delegate, he did not want to know. then I phoned Jim Slater, NUS boss in London. "Forget it lad, your wasting your time."
I later joined the MNOA when I got my tickets.
When I retired I had a problem with my company pension, when I retired I got a bigger payment until I reached the age of 65, then the State pension was deducted. I wrote to the Company`s Pesion Agent that they had not reduced my Pension.` Its OK,` they said, I wrote for three consequtive years and then I got a bill of several thousand pounds for overpayment of pension. I told the Union`s Legal Department. Now the Company`s Pension Agents, wanted by return of post a check for the several thousand.
It was not my fault, I had told them three times about it, Stop the money from the person who had made the mistakes. No chance , Pay up.
The UNION said it has nothing to do with us, you are on your own with this. [ I was a fully paid up Member.]
I wrote to the Company and did a deal with them, No Union Assistance, I had the `debt reduced by one half and pay back the balance over three years. I was happy with that, after all I did have the money.
Why was I paying membership fees when they do me no good
I fell off the mast of the TARKWA in Port Harcourt in 1953 when breaking out the Jumbo, all the rungs and the table on the mast were covered in grease and after having the curse of a Ju-Ju man put upon me by a Mammio, for doing a" flash for dash" and sinking her Canoe, I took a dive, breaking two legs and an arm. I had to work with two legs and the arm in plaster,
When I got home I contacted the Union, "Good case there lad". I heard nothing for 18 months, I asked them is there any progress in the case, "Oh Yes, we Forgot to tell you , you lost, they said you should not have let go then you would not have fallen."
Paddy MaGrath, the Delegate in Liverpool, when I was thrown off the Pool after the Strike, "Give us a fiver lad, [ five days wages] and I`ll get you back on. He should get me back on without my fiver, after filling him in, I got back with a pier head jump on the Empress of France.
All the years at sea not a help from any Union. waste of time.
ALSO what has happened to ALL the Unions money, Assets and property, owned by us the Members, Where has it gone, ? who got the millions of pounds in Investments.????
Why is John Prescott a millionaire, Why are All Union bosses Millionaires???
Why are we all Suckers when it comes to Unions Why do we have no answers.????
Hi All.
Having just written a line on this thred on unions, I retired to read a book my daughter bought me for my birthday.
'Disaster at sea" by William Flyhar.Events in one story caught my eye. It was the collision between the White Star liner Republic and the Italian Liner Florida on 23 January, 1909.
In Part, the crew of the Repulic worked their proverbal B**s off to get all the passengers to the Italian ship that was still afloat, before the Republic sank, they then helped to transfer the passengers to the larger Baltic for greater safety.
There was a massive crowd at the white Star pier to cheer the crew of the Republic ashore and they carried the captain of the Republic shoulder high. The reality of how White Star treated the "Heroes" of the Republic who had lost all thier kit when the liner sunk was quite different. The surviving crew members found themselves consigned to a dark frieght hold on the liner Baltic to await shipment home. They discovered that their rights under the Board of Trade Regulations were distinctly limited.
The approximatly two hundred Merchant seamen were addressed by the British Vice consul who met with them in the hold of the Baltic, he told them that their pay had stopped the instance the Republic had sunk, that she had prvided their wages not the White Star line, futher more they wouldn't recieve any of thier money untill they reached Liverpool, or any employment untill that time.A small amount would be advanced if they were destitute, which they all were, some of the men being partially naked; and this was in January1909 in the dead of winter. The georosity of the White Star Line appears absolutely minimal.
The one truly pathetic issue that the men brought up at the meeting was that the hold of the Baltic had no beds, making it very difficult to sleep under those conditions. The men were all exhausted and need rest above all.They asked if they could be put up ashore where they could wash and clean up as they were all filthy. Ultimatley the White Star crew members were permitted access to some of the bunks and wash rooms in steerage on the Baltic.
And we ask why unions were formed!
Cheers DEs
Some seafarers have just concerns regarding the unions, but not everyone was on the take. I was on the 60s unofficial strike and the official strike of 66.Like someone said I wonder were the seafarers would be if they did not have a union to help them,
Ray
Ray,
Leaving aside the 'on the take' business.
If, in the 60s, the Unions adopted a more conciliatory stance with owners there was a possibility we could have extended the inevitable. As it turned out, that was not the case and the situation was aggravated by a 'militant' stance which hastened the end. Was this 'militant' stance for the benefit of the membership? I doubt it.
On the international scene the ITF were busy with their FOC campaign which drove many owners to bankruptcy resulting in the occasional Officers and Crew losing out. Boycotting/Arresting ships for fictitious 'back pay' was always good publicity but there were many who became victims. Losing their jobs on the one hand and not seeing a penny of this elusive 'back pay'. It happened.
Boycotting did not always produce the results anticipated. I was Master of a VLCC in 78 and the vessel was nearing completion of discharge when we were boycotted. Tugs refused to assist our departure.
After much negotiation the owner paid what was demanded but took the case to Court and after several years it was found that the payment was made 'under duress'. The monies were returned plus several years fees of a certain London law firm which were many time more than the originalPrincipal involved.
That owner was without doubt, the finest I ever worked for with his own Caymen Island /Cape Verde Crew who were loyal to the owner wanted nothing to do with Unions but, the Unions were after him. They came unstuck ‘big time’.
Brgds
Bill
I was a Supt for a Swiss company operating ships under FOC in the 70's, the ship was well found, (ex NCHP)accommodation and food good. pay was reasonable but not ITF reasons were explained and accepted by the ITF reps in Oz, but on the way down the gangway the ITF looked in the crews mess and what they saw made them call all the stevedores off the ship and blacklist it.
The reason for this walkout...........the ITF official had seen the crew eating with their hands stating to the stevedores the shipowner was too tight to supply cutlery to the crew............ the crew in question were of course Pakistani, no amount of explaining Pakistan customs and showing him draweres full of cutlery would persuade the ITF official to relent and order the dockers back to work. We had to call upon the services of the Pakistan Ambassador to explain his country's customs. We lost two days work over that ignorant ITF man and also had to pay the full stevedoring costs whilst the stevedores waited ashore for a decision.
On our last port of call before sailing for Oz we flew out two brand new gangways and installed them, upon arrival in OZ the stevedores refused to use them as they were too old. No amount of safety certificates or Airwaybills would persuade them otherwise, they would not board the ship, we had to hire a gangway for them to board, I hired the gangway the Queen had used on her visit to Fremantle earlier, the head stevedore stamped and jumped on every step shaking his head, even the ITF man lost his rag shouting "get up it you lazy barstewards, if its good enough for the f.....ing Queen its good enough for you.
My two new gangways were sent ashore, cut in half welded together again, given an Oz certificate and the stevedores used them
My experience of union power was gleaned earlier as 3rd mate on a ship on her maiden voyage, stevedores said the gear was no good, vessel built in UK, flying Red Duster and all British crew, all cargo gear had relevant British certificates but Aussies would not use it until ITF and Stevedores had inspected every nut and bolt on all cargo gear, even insisting some of it sent ashore to be retested and restamped with Ausie certificates, we lost days of cargo work and we didn't even using the gear, as we were loaded bulk grain
When I was Supt of a British company during the 60's strike, I found very few seamen sympathetic to the strike, saying that it would cost them more not having a ship than they would gain from any improved pay offer to make up their losses during the strike
..... Unions, I have my views
Hi BillQuote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bill Davies
Regarding the strike of 66 all the ratings wanted was parity with UK shore workers, at that time I was on a 56 hour week while those working ashore were on a 44 hour week. All the NUS were called militant and communist by the then labour party lead by H. Wilson. I agree some companies have had a hard time by the ITF and some times for no reason what so ever, but you and every one that has a interest in the seafarer have seen shocking results of vessels sailing the high seas and without the ITF and sometimes other bodies the shipowner would get away with it. I myself have sailed with FOC vessels and I found them OK.
Cheers
Ray
[QUOTE=Ivan Cloherty;64325]I was a Supt for a Swiss company operating ships under FOC in the 70's, the ship was well found,...../QUOTE]
Hi
I have my view also, I have been on several run jobs for the company I worked for before retirement bringing vessels to Darwin from the UK, stop off in Singapore to let the Aussie unions inspect the vessels before the crew Officer and Rating joined. Was quite surprised of the thing they wanted before the vessels sailed for Darwin, and they got everything they asked for, shocking really but the super said just order and get it installed. I have also been employed by a FOC company from swiss land and they were OK they had a fleet of OBOs.
Ray