Our position in the march past

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Originally Posted by DeepSea

People also seem to forget all the RFA ships now serving in conflict alongside their RN counterparts are manned by Merchant Navy crew, so why should the MN be excluded from any such parade. This is the same mentality shown to those MN veterans from WWII, who we are still trying to raise awarness for even today :mad:

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I am well aware that RFA ships are manned by men of the Merchant Navy, I served on two of them!!
If anyone quotes their RFA service to claim the MN Veterans Badge they will be refused, I know because I did initially. The RFA have decided they wish to receive the HM Armed Forces badge, this is not my doing.
As for it being a"Veterans day" I would not agree, the serving Troops were the highlight of the parade, then the Royal British Legion (Scotland) it was their 90th anniversary, followed by we Veteran associations of all affiliations. I just took part to show my support to our serving troops, and for no other reason. I again had nothing to do with who should attend or not, maybe the Merchant Navy Association did not want to take part, or could not. In Edinburgh the whole shebang was organised by RBL Scotland.

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Originally Posted by Charles Louis Barron

it really does not matter where we parade as long we have the RED DUSTER flying as i said in one of my posts when we arrived in the landing stage in liverpool on the ss monawai us mn guys was the last of the ship but got the biggest cheer from the very big crowd
d

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Whilst I agree with you Louis that as long as the Red Duster is flying that's fine.

Although it will NEVER happen, the MN should lead the parade, without the MN the other services could not function, whether military or civilian, don't see the RN keeping our island nation supplied with food or fuel, nor the Army or Airforce being able to function without fuel, nor the fire brigade, or ambulance services worthwhile and essential though their services are.

This country and it's past and current governmenst still doesn't realise that the MN is the catalyst that keeps this island alive in peace as well as war, then again only two men in recent history it appears realised the importance of the MN, one was Churchill the other General Montgomery who said "Without the Merchant Navy it would not have been possible for our forces to win anything" How soon are we forgotten!

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Originally Posted by Bill Cameron

I am well aware that RFA ships are manned by men of the Merchant Navy, I served on two of them!!
If anyone quotes their RFA service to claim the MN Veterans Badge they will be refused, I know because I did initially. The RFA have decided they wish to receive the HM Armed Forces badge, this is not my doing.
As for it being a"Veterans day" I would not agree, the serving Troops were the highlight of the parade, then the Royal British Legion (Scotland) it was their 90th anniversary, followed by we Veteran associations of all affiliations. I just took part to show my support to our serving troops, and for no other reason. I again had nothing to do with who should attend or not, maybe the Merchant Navy Association did not want to take part, or could not. In Edinburgh the whole shebang was organised by RBL Scotland.

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I also served in RFA in 1984 (Olwen) and I also have the HM Armed Forces badge, but this thread has nothing to do with the MN Veterans Badge.

As for your quote regarding "Veterans Day" I was merely quoting fact, that is was called this before someone changed it to Armed Forces Day.

Both Chairman & Secretary of the National MNA were present at Edinburgh.

When marching in parades over the years organised by the Royal British Legion, there is seniority given in order of the Standard Bearers, which is lead by the RBL Standard followed by the senior service and a few years ago the MN was designated to either march alongside the RN standard or immediately behind depending on how many were on parade. Same goes for the order of laying wreaths. Once the main dignitaries have laid the wreaths the order of laying is RBL, Navy, usually Army Air Force, Royal Marines all together, then the Merchant Navy followed by regiments in order of seniority and finally individual private wreaths.

Unfortunately due to the passage of time a lot of this procedure has been lost, due to the fact the parade marshals do not follow the guidelines left from their predecessors.

Old cartoons showing who all the three armed services relied on as well as the public at home, but some how everyone forgot when it was all over, while other still refuse to acknowledge it.

Deep sea, I am fairly sure both the Both Chairman & Secretary of the National MNA , marched with me and my shipmates, and I spoke to them, never noticed any MN Standard bearers tho, ' was that apathy on the MN Association or a lack of members?

Bill,

I know Tim & John were there, but not sure about the National Standard bearer. I would be quite surprised if old Wing's Barry was not there with the standard as he usually represents the MNA on as many as 30 events a year and was recently awarded the Merchant Navy Medal for his services in raising the profile of the MNA.

Scotland itself has a small number of MNA branches at Caithness, East Lothian, Western Isles and just recently one formed at Dumfries, but don't know if any representatives were present.

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Originally Posted by Bill Cameron

Deep sea, I am fairly sure both the Both Chairman & Secretary of the National MNA , marched with me and my shipmates, and I spoke to them, never noticed any MN Standard bearers tho, ' was that apathy on the MN Association or a lack of members?

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Email from Tim Brant, National Secretary

Billy,

Yes, the MNA was represented in Edinburgh. Wings Barry carried our National Standard –since there were about 2,000 marchers they consolidated groups. We went with the RNA – the RNA National Standard was in the lead with 6 Standards behind him and “Wings” was one of the middle ones. At the Drum Head Ceremony, Wings was with the other National Standards which did not directly take part but were they grouped together. Prince Charles presented seven Veterans’ badges, one of which was presented to David Fisher, Standard Bearer of the East Lothian Branch. We had a stall in the Veteran’s marquee for the 2 days.

I have read all these replies to my original posting with interest, but I'm still a little confused. It would seem that my uncle should have marched with the RNA at the head of the veterans parade? Maybe this is what confused the officials as there was no representatives from the RNA at the parade. The parade was led by the Royal Marines Association. Should my uncle and the other few Merchant Seaman have marched in front of, or with the RMA, as I understand that the Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy and always march immediately behind them.
I only ask this as my uncle is now determined to march at the local Rememberance Day parade in November if he is fit enough of course. It would be nice if these old seamen could turn up and know exactly where to fall in.
Meanwhile, thanks to all of you for your input to this posting.

Jim,

Due the older veterans becoming less and less, I don't believe there is any particular order for veterans forming up at local pardes. The only thing we stick to in our Remembrance Day parade is the Royal Navy (Senior Service) march at the front and anyone else fall behind in ranks of three regardless of rank or regiment. Personally whenever the parade is ordered to form up, I make sure I fall in at the front, either alongside the RN or just behind.

Hi Deepsea.
I served on the RFA Wave Baron in 52 we were around Korea based in Singapore. I got my Armed Forces Veterans badge plus the Merchant Navy veterans. One beef I had while living recently in NZ is that the Returned Service association there informed me that they have never recognised the MN, I could have joined as an associate member I chose not to.
Cheers Des:confused: