Asbestos and ships

[John Arton]

is any asbestos used on modern day shipping just a question is there any replacement for it? jp

J.P.
All the modern vessels I have sailed on since 1977 seem to use decorative panels made of thin steel coated with a plastic like material and with fire retardant filling forming the sandwich between the two sides of the panel. These panels are fixed top and bottom with special fittings and interlock together. Standing by a new building panamax bulker in Copenhagen in 1977, going on board one day you would see one accommodation deck completely empty with only windows in the bulkheads of the outer accommodation bulkheads and all the service pipes and electrical connections for each cabin sticking up through the deck showing where the individual cabins were going to be. The next day, going back to that same deck you would find a whole deck of virtually completed cabins. The bathroom bases came as a complete moulded piece with toilet and flushing system in place. These were dropped into position and held in place by special instant connection fittings, the sandwich type bulkheads were then clipped into place to form the cabin bulkheads. The bathroom bulkheads came fitted with door, wash basin and mirrored cabinet and the cabin bulkheads came with electric sockets and lighting already installed, the deckhead, again complete with lighting fittings was of similar material and they were the first to be installed. Once all the bulkheads were up, water,sewage and electrical power was connected using a opening panel in the alleyway for each cabin. If the carpet fitters got there first then you got carpet covering the whole cabin deck, if the chippies got there first and fitted the bunk, wardrobe and day bed first then the carpet fitters would grumble as they had to cut the carpet to fit around the already fitted cabin furniture. We had about three weeks standing by before hand over and in those three weeks all the cabins were fitted out. She was a standard design B & W pajamas bulker and basically the yard presented you with a fully functioning and outfitted vessel and if the owner wanted there own brand of, for example radio gear or radar, then that was an extra cost and the owner was only allowed access for his chosen equipment to be fiited after the yard had completely finished their work in the area concerned. After hand over ceremony, that took place in February on the top of no. 7 hatch, we were given 24 hours to empty two forty foot containers of all the company supplied stores. Paint, deck stores, cabin linen and valley supplies, food and dry stores, medical supplies,. Charts and navigation publications etc.The yard charged us quayage for the further 48 hours we stayed and they also withdrew the use of the yard crane to lift all the gear on board after the initial 24 hour period. We sailed with as many Danes on board as crew almost. The deckshad not been painted as they had been covered in snow up to hand over, so we had 5 yard painters and all their painting gear on board, the only radio Comms we had was hard fitted VHF as the radio station was not yard supplied so we had 3 Redifon technicians on board finalising the installation. We also had two yard guarantee engineers with us. All the Danes did the maiden voyage down to Tubarao in Brazil, painting the deck and hatches once we got into decent weather and by slow steaming from Copenhagen the Rado guys managed to get the radio station up and running before we passed Dover where we dropped them off. She was one of the best built and outfitted vessels I was ever on, took two of them out of the yard as 2nd. Mate and each time it was a frantic work up to get everything on board in the 72 hours alloted.
Rgds.
J.A.

[Keith Tindell]

What are vehicle brake pads made of ?, i don't know, but if its asbestos there must be a lot of dust about, when you was the wheels on your car you can see the black muck flow out, just wondering, kt

[Lewis McColl]

#31,Having done many a new build I know what you mean. Best time to join a new ship is when she is about 18 months old, most of the operating bugs should have been ironed out by then. I have stood by and taken 6 vessels into service. The worst new builds I was ever on were Chinese built LNG Carriers, bloody death traps and a major accident waiting to happen. Best new build was Japanese built,FP Clipper, geared bulk carrier built for mainly forest products from west Coast USA and British Columbia, 1985, one of my all time favourite ships. I did 14 months on here straight through. I cannot remember a break down during that time.
Next favourite ship was the BP LNG Carrier British Merchant, build quality average but the best accommodation I have ever had at sea. Climate control in your cabin. Under floor heating in your bathroom, Sat phone on your desk, If I wanted to you could even load or discharge the ship from your cabin, never did like, but it did have it's uses, especially when the 2nd or 3rd mate were getting things a bit out of sync while loading or discharging.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Keith.
I know that brake pads used to lined with asbestos, don't know if they have changed that.
In Canberra they did a search of houses that had what is called Mr Fluffy in the ceiling space, it is stripped Fibrolite insulation of the worst kind, blown in through a pipe in the fifties and sixties, it was in many houses in Canberra so the Govt bought them and had them pulled down. We had the roof inspection and my wife said if it's up there we are out of here come what may, but we got a clearance from the Govt inspector, there are two layers of pink bats up there. 99 % of houses in Cooma have Fibro walls inside, and 85% have it as cladding outside, ours is timber weather board, with an extra weather board insulated cover over the top. the town was built for the Snowy Hydro in the Fifties, their solid as the day they were built so there is no problem, so far.
Cheers Des

[happy daze john in oz]

Fibre glass was used in celling bats for insulation here in Oz for years.
Then they developed a blow in style made of fire retardant material, but now most of them are made from a wool compound.
Some of that has also been developed to use as insulation on some pipe work.
As to buildings a lot of cement sheeting is now used.

But I saw a ship in Singapore in for a refit being fitted with new ensuites. All in one piece molded plastic type I presume, old one out in one piece, new one in.

[Ivan Cloherty]

A mention was made in an earlier post of windlass brakes, don't ever remember any asbestos linings, the ones I do remember were made of Lignum Vitae, as was the stern shaft seal.

Car brake pads, with modern disc brakes would they last long if made from asbestos, remember changing brake linings on the old drum brakes and they were definitely asbestos but didn't have to cope with the physical forces of today's braking requirements, has anyone looked on google to ascertain the material used in modern pads, which are frightenley small for what they have to cope with, but at least easier to change

[Ivan Cloherty]

Asbestos has not been used in vehicle brake pads or linings for over 40 years, there are now three main types

(1) Organic - made from carbon+ glass+ rubber and occasionally have kelvar added.

(2) Semi-metallic made from iron+steel+copper+graphite

(3) Ceramic made from the same material as space shuttle heatshield


#1 quietest but wear out very quickly - cheapest

#2 mid range and have good stopping qualities and hard wearing - mid range price

#3 fitted to high performance and expensive cars, can crack under constant high speed braking - very expensive

Brake pad manufacturers advise that you should only replace with those that were fitted as original equipment as the brakepads are specifically designed for that shoe

Hope that helps

[Keith Tindell]

Ivan, i was talking to a mechanic on this subject and explained to me why the Discs, not the pads, have to be measured for thickness. Apparently when disc pads were initially used the discs were of steel, but they became too hot and could not shed the heat fast enough, so now they are made of a softer metal which cools faster and improves braking, but the drawback is they wear more readily, and become thin, and if used beyond a certain thickness can shatter. thats as i understand it, but could be common knowledge, but not to me, kt

[Roger Dyer]

HI All.
My brother-in-law died from Mesothelioma 12 years ago, he was a pipe fitter for a fire mob, in 1964 he was working on a high rise in Auckland putting in a new system, the whole building was a dust deceases disaster though they didn't know it at the time, the Dr said he had that encapsulated in his lungs for years, we think he disturbed it when he was using a big hammer to break up some concrete 18 month s before he passed away.
I was the Union delegates that banned asbestos from Westmead Hospital when it was being built, and was part of the group that had it banned permanently from the building industry in N.S.W. Unfortunately too late for my Brother-in law.
I well remember the thick bands of it around the winch pipes, a mate who was at the Vindi with me died in the 70s from working on them at sea.
Cheers Des

Hi Des'

Sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. It can, I know, be a particularly distressing way to end ones life. If nothing else, you must feel some satisfaction in knowing you helped end the use of this deadly material in the building industry,

I read with interest your reference to Westmead Hospital and tbe banishment of asbestos on site at the time of it's building. (As a matter of interest, as you probably know, when completed it would become the largest hospital complex in the southern hemisphere). Anyway, during construction in the '80's, a stand-alone single-storey building was also erected adjacent to the western side of the main building which would house a Coroner's Court Complex. Later, in the 90's, when they commenced to add extensions to this building, asbestos was found in the soil. With frantic haste those of us who were working in the existing building were immediately stood-down while the 'experts' decided how serious the threat was to our health. After a few days we were given the 'all-clear'. No surprises really I suppose, the alternative would have meant the complete dismantlement of the building at a cost of millions to the Government - am I being cynical ? The hospital had been built on land that was formerly the Westmead Speedway, a venue for Harness Racing (Trots) and motor racing. What was there prior to that I cannot say, but it was rumoured that 'back in the day' the manufacture of asbestos products had been carried out on that site. It wouldn't surprise me. Does any of this ring a bell, Des ?


While on the subject of asbestos ...about a year ago the wife and I decided that having lived in this house for 47 years we were due a new bathroom, little realising it would involve the original walls being completely stripped. It's only a small area but it still cost $2,500 for the specialists to strip and remove it all, as required by law. Nice little earner, it only took three of 'em a couple of hours .......bluddy asbestos !!!......mind you it's a lovely bathroom.

....Roger

[Lewis McColl]

Never sailed on a ship with a Stern tube that had a Lignum Vitae seal, Sailed on ships with Lignum Vitae stern tube Bearing and a cast brass liner over the shaft and a gland packing & stuffing box. Have changed many a windlass brake bands. Even on older tonnage the lining was a product called Mintex, but not sure what it was made from , that may be just a brand name same as Ferodo?

I remember on Blue Flu's Demodocus we had water flooding in. She was due a dry docking but like all owners they put it off as long as they could. We were in Gladstone dock and on completion of discharge she was ballasted down by the head as much as possible. Divers fitted some kind of seal around the exposed stern tube and rope guard. The 2/eng and I had wedged a plank of wood over the aft bilge well so we could work on the stuffing box. The gland follower was in two halves. Anyway we removed the lower half and the old packing as much as we could and replaced it with new and refitted the lower half of the gland follower. We were both working on the seal at the same time him on one side and me on the other. after we got the bottom have boxed up he says I'm going for a smoke. He stepped off the plank and I disappeared down into the aft bilge well. The feckin ejit nearly drowned, the Chinese fitter managed to pull me out and then I was nearly dying of hypothermia it was January so the water temperature must have been about 3 degrees at best. I became ill after a day or two with the runs. I am sure many an engineer has used the aft bilge well as a urinal when on watch and doing the tunnel bearing checks, also we were up the Mersey at the time, well famous for Mersey Trout etc!!