Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 86

Thread: Putin V the West

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Prenton
    Posts
    2,772
    Thanks (Given)
    343
    Thanks (Received)
    1210
    Likes (Given)
    2237
    Likes (Received)
    3916

    Default Putin V the West

    Did anyone watch the TV programme on last night, Putin v the West? If you missed it I think you can get it on I Player.

    Pick of the day: Putin vs the West
    9pm, BBC Two

    Anyone wishing to understand the roots of the war in Ukraine should not miss Norma Percy’s account of the growing crisis since 2014. This was the year when Vladimir Putin first tested the will of Europe and America when he seized Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula. Among the impressive cast of contributors are David Cameron, former French president François Hollande and ex-Ukrainian leader Petro Poroshenko, who recalls bitter divisions over how to handle Putin (described by José Manuel Barroso as a “product of resentment”) after the 2014 anti-government protests in Kyiv and the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

    If true it was certainly an eye opener. Basically by the West ignoring the Russian take over of the Crimea as good as told Putin the west will not interfere.
    Looks as if 8 years of Barrack Obama not upsetting the world apple cart has given Putin a step up the ladder and can do as he feels like. Then another 4 years of Trump. In a move that seemed wholly ill-thought-out, Trump suggested that Americans would be better served trusting Putin over their own intelligence services.

    Now a senior MEP says Brixit is to blame.

    Russia may not have invaded Ukraine if Brexit had not happened, senior MEP Guy Verhofstadt has said on the third anniversary of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU.

    Mr Verhofstadt – the European parliament’s former Brexit coordinator – suggested Vladimir Putin calculated that the continent was not united on defence after the UK’s exit from the bloc.

    Think the west are positioning themselves for the exit!!!

  2. Thanks Doc Vernon, Des Taff Jenkins thanked for this post
    Likes John Arton liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    535
    Thanks (Given)
    17
    Thanks (Received)
    188
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    887

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    Quote Originally Posted by James Curry View Post
    Did anyone watch the TV programme on last night, Putin v the West? If you missed it I think you can get it on I Player.

    Pick of the day: Putin vs the West
    9pm, BBC Two




    Now a senior MEP says Brixit is to blame.



    Think the west are positioning themselves for the exit!!!
    One might just as well say that Putin invaded Ukraine because he knew that the EU had idiots like Verhofstadt in Brussels.
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 31st January 2023 at 07:06 PM.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sunbury Victoria Australia
    Posts
    24,991
    Thanks (Given)
    8300
    Thanks (Received)
    10124
    Likes (Given)
    106523
    Likes (Received)
    45652

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    But were he to win, and anything is possible, then all he will be taking is a cities and towns in ruin.
    Will he rebuild them or leave as is?

    - - - Updated - - -

    But were he to win, and anything is possible, then all he will be taking is a cities and towns in ruin.
    Will he rebuild them or leave as is?

    I find the bit about EU somewhat obscure, it was only one nation out of 27 that left, hardly a split.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Lincolnshire ex Liverpool
    Posts
    1,840
    Thanks (Given)
    539
    Thanks (Received)
    1576
    Likes (Given)
    2328
    Likes (Received)
    6958

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    It well worthwhile taking a look at the other side in a dispute or war.
    Russia was facing continual demands from the West to tear down the wall separating East and West Germany. An agreement was eventually reached, the wall will come down and the West will not encroach one centimetre into former Russian controlled territories.
    History shows this agreement was soon disbanded with Western military bases built on Russian borders.
    When the US and it's allies proposed Ukraine could join NATO and European Union it was only a short step to a nuclear armed State.
    We only get one version of facts from press and media an open mind is essential to learn from history.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    11,467
    Thanks (Given)
    3440
    Thanks (Received)
    7758
    Likes (Given)
    11953
    Likes (Received)
    34924

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis the fly View Post
    When the US and it's allies proposed Ukraine could join NATO and European Union it was only a short step to a nuclear armed State.
    .
    Ukraine was a nuclear armed state and gave up its nuclear arms around 2005 (I stand to be corrected on date) on the understanding that NATO/US would come to its aid if threatened from outside sources.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Prenton
    Posts
    2,772
    Thanks (Given)
    343
    Thanks (Received)
    1210
    Likes (Given)
    2237
    Likes (Received)
    3916

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    Louis , what about the expansion of the Russian state after the war and cold war?

    Country Year Methods used
    Albania 1945 A communist government took power at the end of World War Two.
    Bulgaria 1946 In 1946 the Bulgarian monarchy was abolished and later that year a communist government was elected and gradually eradicated its opponents.
    East Germany 1945 East Germany was part of the Soviet zone of occupation agreed at the Yalta Conference and in 1945 the Soviets set up a communist regime.
    Romania 1945 In the 1945 elections, a communist-led coalition (made up of more than one political party) government was elected. The Communists gradually removed their coalition partners and abolished the Romanian monarchy.
    Poland 1947 Fearing that a non-communist government would be elected in 1947, Stalin invited 16 non-communist politicians to Moscow, where they were arrested. With their political opponents removed, the Polish communists won the election.
    Hungary 1948 Although non-communists won the 1945 election, a communist politician, Rakosi, took control of the secret police and used it to arrest and execute his political opponents. By 1948 the Communist Party was in complete control of the country.
    Czechoslovakia 1948 Czechoslovakia was the last country in Eastern Europe to fully fall to communism in 1948. At elections that year only communists were allowed to stand and a communist government was duly elected.

    Expansion of Communism
    Despite agreeing at Yalta that free elections would be held in Eastern Europe after the defeat of Nazi Germany, there was little evidence at Potsdam that Stalin intended to allow them. In fact the Red Army was in control of Poland where the USSR was in the process of setting up a communist government.

    I would suggest a reason for western expansion and influence into the Russian state is more to do with the media rather than US or EU governments foreign policy.

    Russian citzens have the idea that the west is the land of milk and honey. Kids & Young adults watch western Movies and TV shows and believe that is how life is. Everyone has a nice house , cars and go on holidays, so whats not to want.

    I am sure that many of us saw on the news when the first McDonalds opened in Moscow the queues went the length of the block.
    Sanctions by the west against Russia following Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    McDonalds announced they would stop trading in Russia Well that should help improve the health of many young russians

    Western companies did they not pump Billions into Russias economy, oil and gas industries? only to see the even more corrupt Russian officials pass laws which effectively stole those Billions. BP & Shell are two such companies that got turned over by the now new Oligarchy mates of the Putin regime.

    Spain for a while was being bought up by Russians especially the real estate markets , yes they were only following on what the Germans & Brits had been doing for years. Difference is the Russians then started getting heavy handed in and around the Urbanizations, bars and restaurants. I have expeirenced russian behaviour while queuing in a Supermarket they just walk to the front of the queue and bugger everyone else. Yes I am tarring them with the one brush. Having met and sailed with many russians I can honestly say they are pig ignorant.

    I watched a movie on Film 4 last night. The Bridge of Spies, supposedly based on a true story, worth a watch. Can anyone ever remember hearing about anyone climbing over the Berlin wall from the West to the East of Germany. I do remember hearing about those who would try it the other way and usually they ended up shot , But one never knows that may just have been Western propganda.
    Last edited by James Curry; 1st February 2023 at 11:49 AM.

  8. Thanks Brenda Shackleton, happy daze john in oz thanked for this post
  9. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    W.A.
    Posts
    23,640
    Thanks (Given)
    12848
    Thanks (Received)
    13717
    Likes (Given)
    19100
    Likes (Received)
    76757

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    #5 Think it was more like a Russian controlled or Russian sympathising State in 2005. the Russian vessel I sailed on out here the crew were nearly all Russian Ukrainans and all patriotic Russians . There were 40 of them. That was about 1998. JS
    Last edited by j.sabourn; 1st February 2023 at 12:49 PM.
    R575129

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    11,467
    Thanks (Given)
    3440
    Thanks (Received)
    7758
    Likes (Given)
    11953
    Likes (Received)
    34924

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    Quote Originally Posted by j.sabourn View Post
    #5 Think it was more like a Russian controlled or Russian sympathising State in 2005. the Russian vessel I sailed on out here the crew were nearly all Russian Ukrainans and all patriotic Russians . There were 40 of them. That was about 1998. JS
    As I said John, not sure about the date, I was only commenting upon the fact that #4 said Ukraine would become a Nuclear State if it joined Nato, where-as the opposite was true, Ukraine was and always had been a nuclear state but signed the non-proliferation agreement and gave up its Nuclear arsenal, of which it huge stocks, on the understanding that Nato/US, would come to its aid when required, which is why Zelensky is constantly reminding Nato of its tardiness in supplying the 'right' equipment, rather than equipment, so far, which only allows them to pizz on the fire

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    817
    Thanks (Given)
    1150
    Thanks (Received)
    1353
    Likes (Given)
    573
    Likes (Received)
    3152

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    Hello Louis #4
    Russia launched the first satellite, Sputnik 1 in 1957. Followed by the USA.
    1962 USA launched TELSTAR; the first telecommunications Satellite (remember the tune by the Tornados?)

    The Telecom Satellites were the beginning of the end for Russia because gradually the jamming of radio and TV became totally ineffective. People in the East, particularly East Germany where they were so brutally oppressed by Honeker, saw somethings and lots of things beyond their dreams under the Soviets. Over the Wal and the Borders came Coca-Cola; Jeans; Rock & Roll to name just a few that the young people wanted. In Nov 1989 Hungary dismantled its border with E. Germany and a month later the wall was demolished by people power.

    Putin is looking backwards and wants a return to the old USSR. Not a hope.
    I don't often agree with Politicians but David Cameron described Putin as, 'Deny and Lie'. Yes, Dave. Definitely.
    Brenda

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central London
    Posts
    636
    Thanks (Given)
    308
    Thanks (Received)
    715
    Likes (Given)
    2632
    Likes (Received)
    2424

    Default Re: Putin V the West

    I watched the programme, one of the things it kept repeating was that Putin either lies or totally ignores questions he dislikes. Which I thought was a bit rich as most of the accusing politicians from the Uk/EEC do exactly the same thing.So at the end of the programme it is difficult to know who is telling the truth.

Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •