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3rd March 2020, 08:03 AM
#1
Deck Apprentices
As there are several posts in various places on site and can’t find the last one I joined in on the discussion on the whys and wherefores of people changing their course of action in a seagoing career , I have my own indentures in front of me which are on a parchment and too legal. And misleading to even try and reprint here. So the following is the basic to what they say.
It is a shipping federation form C.4c.
The said apprentice binds himself to the said company for 4 years.
Will faithfully serve the said company.
During the said term will not absent himself from their service. In consideration whereof the company will cause him to be taught the duties of a deck officer.
They will provide sufficient meat drink and lodging.
The following rate of pay will be 1st year 75 pounds
2nd. 90 pounds
3rd. 105 pounds
4th. 125 pounds.
Various clauses
If the said apprentice is convicted of any offence under the MSA or suffers any injury , the company Can at their discretion terminate this agreement .
If the said term of 4 years expires whilst serving outside UK waters , he will continue to serve until the next arrival back in H.T limits or until the culmination of the present Articles whichever occurs first. And shall sign the Articles as a Cadet, and shall be paid at the equivilant rate of an able seaman.
There is of course much more legal wording to this also about drink and houses of ill repute.
Why anyone should want to give away a more reasonable wage with leave and all the trimmings to tie themselves for 4 years beats me. Circa 1952 shipping form.
JWS. Ps I think people get mixed up with the term cadet and apprentice. JS.
Last edited by j.sabourn; 3rd March 2020 at 09:10 AM.
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4th March 2020, 12:22 AM
#2
Re: Deck Apprentices
Senior Site Moderator-Member and Friend of this Website
R697530
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4th March 2020, 01:03 AM
#3
Re: Deck Apprentices
Graham Payne was it you who served their time with Chapman’s . ? As said in a post we lay on the same berth as her one time in BA once, the old Geneton..i thought my ship. Was rough it was luxury compared with her.she had an open wheelhouse. , no carpenter so was the apprentices job , to be responsible for all the battening down, broken limber boards, and spar ceiling , soundings and all the other jobs.the chippy had, what got me most was the open wheelhouse and she was frequently on the North Atlantic run in winter. I believe John Eggleston now in the orbituary column on here served his time with such, but the one who I knew on her at the time was a Charlie Briggs from Sunderland who someone told me, may have been you , finished up as Harbour Master at Blyth. Tough ships, tough people. JWS
Last edited by j.sabourn; 4th March 2020 at 01:19 AM.
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4th March 2020, 04:49 AM
#4
Re: Deck Apprentices
Originally Posted by
j.sabourn
As there are several posts in various places on site and can’t find the last one I joined in on the discussion on the whys and wherefores of people changing their course of action in a seagoing career , I have my own indentures in front of me which are on a parchment and too legal. And misleading to even try and reprint here. So the following is the basic to what they say.
It is a shipping federation form C.4c.
The said apprentice binds himself to the said company for 4 years.
Will faithfully serve the said company.
During the said term will not absent himself from their service. In consideration whereof the company will cause him to be taught the duties of a deck officer.
They will provide sufficient meat drink and lodging.
The following rate of pay will be 1st year 75 pounds
2nd. 90 pounds
3rd. 105 pounds
4th. 125 pounds.
Various clauses
If the said apprentice is convicted of any offence under the MSA or suffers any injury , the company Can at their discretion terminate this agreement .
If the said term of 4 years expires whilst serving outside UK waters , he will continue to serve until the next arrival back in H.T limits or until the culmination of the present Articles whichever occurs first. And shall sign the Articles as a Cadet, and shall be paid at the equivilant rate of an able seaman.
There is of course much more legal wording to this also about drink and houses of ill repute.
Why anyone should want to give away a more reasonable wage with leave and all the trimmings to tie themselves for 4 years beats me. Circa 1952 shipping form.
JWS. Ps I think people get mixed up with the term cadet and apprentice. JS.
John, wages per year??
Was this on the Ark or later as such low figures sound bad.
Must have had some good reasons to become one at that rate.
Happy daze John in Oz.
Life is too short to blend in.
John Strange R737787
World Traveller
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4th March 2020, 09:00 AM
#5
Re: Deck Apprentices
On leaving school I was getting 37 shillings a week for being a part time butcher boy. As much as I earned a year for about a usual 84 hour week at sea. .however was written into the indentures that the company would pay you an addittional 12 shillings a year washing money. Goody goody gumdrops. JS.
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4th March 2020, 04:54 PM
#6
Re: Deck Apprentices
I too have my indentures signed 16th March 1953, a wonderful document of the times. An addendum at the side notes an increase in the salary, 1st year £90 2nd £115 3rd £130 and 4th £145. My father had to pay £25 surety which was returned upon my completing my apprenticeships of the satisfaction of the company. I served 16 months first trip on Border Regiment with another 1st trip apprentice David Johnston we eventually paid off in Falmouth at dry dock but the Master, Capt. Charlie Muir, wouldn't let us leave the ship until relieved by new apprentices. I went ashore and rang Commons office in Newcastle, Jack Hart, who told me no replacements were coming and to tell the Captain to ring him. That went down really well with Charlie Muir, however we got off the ship and got the first available train out of Falmouth and made our way via a pretty complicated route back to Newcastle, it took forever. Happy days!
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5th March 2020, 05:28 AM
#7
Re: Deck Apprentices
A massive 12 shillings a year, but of course you could save that by doing your Doby down by the river side.
It makes one wonder how they managed to keep apprentices at that rate.
But my first pay on leaving school to muck out pigs was 4GBP per seven day week.
Only did it for a few months, 28GBP per month with UCL was a better deal, and got paid for Sunday at sea, I think?????
Happy daze John in Oz.
Life is too short to blend in.
John Strange R737787
World Traveller
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6th March 2020, 01:04 AM
#8
Re: Deck Apprentices
We didn’t even get that. However after finishing my time, you only got a Sunday at sea if you completed 8 hours at sea. Have seen masters arriving in port making sure FWE was before 0800 hrs. Have even seen them jump a day crossing the date line so there was no Sunday. Didn’t do them any good though they still got made redundant at the end of the day, the same as everyone else. JS
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6th March 2020, 04:41 AM
#9
Re: Deck Apprentices
John, I have been told, and believe it, that foreign ships will not take on Australian seamen in an Australian port as if they do thye must pay Oz rates, that includes super, long service leave etc.
But if they take them on overseas they get paid at the same rate as the fest of the crew.
Happy daze John in Oz.
Life is too short to blend in.
John Strange R737787
World Traveller
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6th March 2020, 08:14 AM
#10
Re: Deck Apprentices
John I have said in the past and stick by it. I spent all my working life at sea and was a very varied existence I had. It was take it or leave it towards the end and most self respecting seafarers would have refused many of the jobs. My main aim in life towards the end was counting the days towards retirement. Saying that the best conditions and any I ever encountered in Shipping was here in Australia. Some may disagree with that and maybe they are right as may have been at a different period of time. The ships themselves I worked on were mostly rejects from the North Sea and under powered by what the oil company’s required for those northern latitudes. But out here as you know the weather is more clement. The seamen’s conditions that I saw from 1991 to 2002 in Oz. Were better than I have ever seen. This Is to me down to the maritime union here at that time. A lot of people decry unions but as far as I am concerned they certainly got the best conditions going out here during my time. If I had still been living in the UK I would more than probably still been paying a mortgage off. I am not a down and out trade union person but realise they are necessary. Today however speaking to people still in the business things have changed, with changes of governments come changes of rules. Today mainly through bad media the unions have lost most of their membership and have very little say in what goes on. During my 11 years foreign seamen were not allowed on Australian ships and when they were through government intervention they insisted they had the same conditions as Australian seafarers., this stemmed the tide slightly. But today by what I can gather it’s every man for himself. My time out here there was no comparison between conditions in the North Sea and Australian coastal and Indonesian waters. As regards your query you are probably quite right.
JWS.
Last edited by j.sabourn; 6th March 2020 at 08:21 AM.
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