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Thread: Vested interest

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    Default Vested interest

    In times long past such as the Medieval times the people were mainly uneducated.
    Often the property of the local Baron or Master of the land they were often controlled by the religion of the day, at most times in the European regions the Catholic Church.
    There were some who would not agree with the teachings or findings of the Church, often classed as heretics and burned at the stake.
    Heretics because they would not conform or believe in the teachings of the few.

    Those times are now long past, but there is still some burning at the stake though in a different manner.
    Then there were others who though they had different beliefs escaped that dreadful ordeal, Martin Luther being one. As a result of his teachings most of Scandinavia are of the Lutheran religion.
    Luther being a man who though outside the square.

    The modern religion is Global Warming/Climate Change, and those who do not believe, or have other ideas about this are burned at the stake of social media.

    But again it is the few unseen who claim to be the new 'Religion' leaders, promulgating their message through the media. A source of information often tinted or slanted to suit the needs of that media platform. Very often their version of what has been published by these unseen persons. Shock and awe will attract more attention that an article set in a passive manner. For the media this is important, fail to sell copy and you are doomed to total failure.

    I am one such person damned as a climate septic because I will not conform or fall in line with others who now believe in this new religion.

    But I have my own belief in all of this, maybe in the same manner as there are other religions, so do others in the community who like me care to look at this matter though different eyes.

    It is a proven fact that there are different climates across the globe, they are regional, where as weather is local.
    But the Climate can and does at times have an effect on local weather patterns.

    As an example the weather here in Australia this year has seen a heat wave across much of the nation. But it has been conceded that the fires added to the actual heat.
    But if we are to believe the meteorological office, and there is no reason not to, then much of this was caused by the excessive heating this year of the Indian Ocean.

    The Indian ocean is in the tropics, a climate, and this climate has not changed but rather had an effect on the weather pattern of Australia. This is an example of how a climate can effect a weather pattern.

    So Climate may not change but rather have an effect, but the question for the climate deniers is this, if a climate is changing, from what to what, which so far has not been explained.

    Many nations now claim they will set out a program to reach a point of Zero net emissions by a set date, most of these being Western nations often with vested interests. There is little comment from nations such as Afghanistan, Russia, or many of the smaller African nations.
    France intends to increase nuclear power, whilst China, Japan and South Korea will continue with Clean Coal technology.


    But there is deep hypocrisy with all of this.

    The leader of the Labor opposition here in Australia condemns the government for not having what he declares is a Climate Policy, yet he has declared on two occasions in front of the media, workers and union officials that he will continue to support the coal industry with it's exports as it brings in much needed revenue and creates employment.

    The government has made a similar declaration saying that any changes to climate policy must not compromise the employment of workers, nor increase the cost of living.

    Then there are nations such as Norway, one that has declared that by 2035 it will have Zero emissions, whilst continuing to export oil and gas.

    Look closely at any gathering of international leaders at any convention, be it the UN, Climate debates, or financial meetings. It is always the same face, the same members of the club, members who claim to be making changes for the good of humanity whilst at the same time having vested interests in what their nations do. These are the priests of the new religion preaching from the pulpits of their church, mainly in the northern hemisphere.

    Like many other deniers we are not opposed to a cleaner globe, reduced rubbish and waste, recycle where ever possible. A number of clever nations, Singapore, Sweden, Finland and a few others incinerate their household rubbish and use the energy from that to create power, better than land fill which creates Methane.
    Our state premier was put with a suggestion we do similar, but no said he, this would not sit well with the “Greens' who support him in parliament.. Maybe he is just another water melon.

    Then the ex PM opposed to any use of coal but a major investor in a Turbine manufacturing company.
    As said at the beginning, this is more about vested interests than saving the planet.

    On my way back from town I noticed what appears to be a large bonfire being erected on the village green, I do hope it is only for this week ends town fair.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

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    Default Re: Vested interest

    Look on the bright side John, you are not alone, many of us can see beyond the politics of seeking power and avarice. As one scientist said

    'why is man so arrogant that he thinks he can change the course of nature, in the whole sphere of things mans contribution is less than zero'

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    Default Re: Vested interest

    Two cracking posts. I must admit to being in the don't know situation. I have considered both arguments and seen the pros and cons of both. I am torn between YES there is climate change and NO its just a variation that has happened in the past.

    I have however noticed the difference in the weather since I was a kid in my particular part of the world, especially the lack of snow. Winters seem to be a lot milder but the summers apart from the odd heatwaves appear to be cooler or is that the effects of old age on my senses.

    Politicians and Scientists all have different agendas and it is really quite difficult to decide who is in fact telling the truth. Also there are different interpretations put by both on similar facts and figures.

    I suppose I will just have to wait and see.
    When one door closes another one shuts, it must be the wind

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    Default Re: Vested interest

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Allman View Post
    Two cracking posts. I must admit to being in the don't know situation. I have considered both arguments and seen the pros and cons of both. I am torn between YES there is climate change and NO its just a variation that has happened in the past.

    .
    I sometimes wonder if my old departed Mum was right, when she said 'I blame it all on the atom Bomb'

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    Default Re: Vested interest

    On the same line Ivan. Sister in law's grandmother blamed the Russians. Everything was O.K. till they started putting up those
    satellites.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Vested interest

    VETSED INTEREST PART TWO

    At the end of WW2 in 1945 it was estimated that global population sat at about 2.5 billion.
    Now in 2020 it is estimated at some 7.9 billion, an increase of some 216%.
    There has been a similar increase in live stock to feed the ever increasing population.

    All mammals produce both Co2 and Methane, but Methane is also produced by any substance be it animal or vegetable that decomposes.

    Since the end of WW2 cities have grown, populations requiring accommodation, business requiring working space , vehicle numbers have grown to a level of almost one per head of population.

    This has all lead to an increase of emissions into the atmosphere, but is it all bad?

    Scientists of note say only 3% of all Co2 enters the atmosphere, the remainder is taken up by trees and other green plants and by photosynthesis is converted to oxygen, without which we cannot survive.

    The construction of the new cities, freeways and other infrastructure has taken over vast expanses of the country side in so many countries. Often this construction can develop heat banks which can have an effect on the weather.
    Snow in many suburban districts was back in times prior to, and just after WW2, quite common as was frost. But many of those areas now do not have this any more. Heat generated from the heat banks lasts well into the colder months, enough to prevent snow and frost from forming.

    Where does the heat emanate from, mainly the sun and to some extent ocean currents. Why so much heat from the sun, one would consider maybe it would be constant, but no.
    There area number of factors that will effect the efficiency of the sun on earth.
    Solar flares, sonic winds, and the waxing and waning of the sun at various times. Just as the Moon goes through a cycle so does the Sun. Added to which the earth is not at a constant distance from the Sun.

    Those who sail the seven seas are aware of this more so than those ashore, as is the case with ocean currents. The Gulf Stream which begins life in the southern hemisphere carries heat to the northern hemisphere, heat which has an effect on the weather patterns of countries such as the UK.

    The world continued on the path of growth until around 2000 when a new religion came into being, a new religion brought about by the high priest Gore. There had been some minor priest prior to this but with insufficient funding to continue, no such problem for the new high priest.

    His teaching brought forth a plethora of followers all willing to take up with this new region, many were of a scientific background but must not be confused with the Church of Scientology.

    The preaching began to stretch across the globe taking over the very being of many who chose to follow this new leader. The new messiah who would save the world from itself!

    Unlike previous religions this one attacked all who would not follow naming them as heretics and climate deniers.

    His preaching brought about changes to the thinking of many, many who were considered to be of high intelligence, but obviously low on common sense.

    Claims were made than man was destroying the planet, and to some extent this was factual. One way products with no means of repair, plastic items with only land fill to look forward to, plastic of other kinds poisoning the seas and rivers.

    The fervor of this new religion gathered pace with large churches springing up in many countries, all with the intention of following the teachings of the new high priest and save the world.
    Two new villains came into being, Co2 and Methane, inventions of the Devil which must be driven from society, villains that have been with us from the beginning of time.

    Then came a volcanic eruption in Iceland the likes of which man had not seen for generations spewing forth great volumes of emissions to such an extent that one worldly scientist of the day did quote that this eruption has put more emissions into the atmosphere than man could in 100 years.

    But now we must extinguish them from society by bringing in new methods of producing by solar or wind generated power. The followers of the new religion gave forth messages of hope for the globe, they would be the disciples of the new Messiah and bring forth change. Great missal were drawn up to comply with the message. So came forth the new developments and for many a great source of income as never before seen, and they were well pleased. The prophets of this new religion, the leaders of the world, went forth unto their people to spread the gospel, with words of 'do as I say not as I do'.

    There then came forth a new disciple who brought forth a new concept, the electric car which would rid the world of emissions as came form the conventional vehicle. But the construction of the batteries would require more than seven times the copper of the conventional vehicle, but the copper miners gave forth great shouts of joy for their profits were increases ten fold, and all was good.
    The investors in this new concept were also in great joy, their investments at $100 per share had by early 2020 risen to some $800 and they were well pleased.

    And the message was spread amongst the people saying this is the path we must now take, and the people were sore afraid and began to comply.

    But the teaching began to weigh heavy on some so further changes came about. Retail lead the way, ban the one way plastic bag, the bag that feeds into the oceans and rivers,. And all including gave shouts of joy for their efforts would be the beginning of the saving of the earth.

    And behold the retailers Australian were well pleased for their savings per annum on this would be some $3 billion and they could now sell heavy duty plastic bags that would last for millennium unlike the previous ones that would over time disintegrate.

    Then from the supermarkets a new instrument in the war on waste, no more would meat be packed in small polystyrene trays, now instead in heavy plastic formed to the meats shape, this plastic which will now flow to the land fill as nothing can be further done with it. But the high priests of the church were well pleased for they saw that much was being done, much that would for them increase their wealth.

    But then came the cry, the world is getting hotter, we must finds ways of reducing the heat. And lo temperatures of times long past were quoted and compared with those of today.
    But wait, in times long past the equipment used may not have been of the standard of today, and was this temperature taken in the same place at the same time? If not hen how can we compare.


    So the leaders of the new religion began to meet to find new ways of competing with this new enemy called Climate Change. But when asked what is this gave no answer, only to say we must find new ways.

    Fires of great magnitude sprang up in Australia, fires that from time to time do occur and often with devastating effect. But the land was dry from drought another natural event of this great southern land.
    But the followers of the new religion declared this is not natural but the work of the Devil Climate Change and many protested on this matter. Across the globe the cry went up on this matter, we must change came the cry but no suggestions of how.

    Then came rain, tropical down pours which brought thankfully an end to the fires. Though much damage had been done but not as much as in previous fires.

    The rains, the result of the heat brought about by the drought. Water carried to the upper atmosphere where it collected mush as a sponge would absorb water. But the sponge filled to capacity and no longer able to hold that water released it in magnanimous quantity.

    The weather cooled and the protestors vanished from the scene, no doubt waiting for the next installment of this or some other event.

    But the deniers and climate skeptics continue to do all they can to avert any possible disaster, often thinking outside the square to find answers and not setting themselves up as possible future millionaire from making what they can from all of this.
    For this planet has been around for some 4 billion years or so, it has undergone many changes over that time, seen species become extinct only to be replaced by others.
    Has gone from a lush green planet to one with polar regions, rains that lasted for a thousand years, volcanic eruptions of such magnitude that man may not be able to comprehend, but still it exits.

    That does not mean man may ignore the manner in which he treats his home, this planet, we must take better care in so many areas, but we must also not find ourselves bullied into following the thinking of some who maintain theirs is the only way.
    We must think and find for ourselves the answers, and if that means changing the way things are done then so be it.
    Embrace the new technology for what it is worth, not for the sake of the few who will benifit from it in massive wealth creation.
    Happy daze John in Oz.

    Life is too short to blend in.

    John Strange R737787
    World Traveller

  7. Thanks Duke Drennan thanked for this post
  8. #7
    Keith at Tregenna's Avatar
    Keith at Tregenna Guest

    Default Re: Vested interest

    Personally I see that weather is somewhat unpredictable, like rolling dice.
    Global warming increases the occurence and/or strength of many types
    of extreme weather.

    It’s like drawing extra dots on the dice, increasing the odds of a higher roll.

    Scientific skepticism is healthy. Scientists should always challenge themselves
    to improve their understanding. Yet this isn't what happens with climate change
    denial. Skeptics vigorously criticise any evidence that supports man-made global
    warming and yet embrace any argument, op-ed, blog or study that purports to
    refute global warming.

    Best could be to wait and see, lest time runs out.

    Keith.

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