UK Population.

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Originally Posted by vic mcclymont

Read your history.
NHS was proposed by the conservative party in the early years of WW2, but there was no money to fund it.
Labour used the funds supplied by USA to rebuild the country.
Vic

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I think perhaps you should read your history.
A State Health Service was proposed by Labour at their conference in 1934.
The beginnings of the Welfare State were of course laid down by the Liberal Party when they were in government before the first war.
It's also worth remembering that the Tories voted against the formation of the NHS in parliament.
Any Tory support for the project was quite simply borne out of the shocking findings of the Beveridge Report (and a couple of other pre war investigations) which concluded that the poor state of the nations health was limiting the number of men suitably fit for military service/cannon fodder.

I think in my humble opinion that the principal reason Australia, the USA and Perhaps N.Z... (sorry, other than a lovely country I don't know anything about it's (N.Z.) benefits system),... do benefit from it's legal immigrants is it gets to keep the ones that expect to work hard and can see a CHANCE to improve their life, and if not theirs, improve the expectations of their children's life. You are on your own here, and I think OZ.. This has the effect of weeding out those who are home-sick for life under the 'nanny state system' or the old country way of life in general and most definitely the bludgers, cry babies and those more comfortable with a state safety-net system. As I was told many times in Australia, the whingers went HOME. Australia or the U.S. was never going to be home to them.

Perhaps if the U.K. withheld social benefits for the first five years that would weed out the bludgers and whingers from those who genuinely want to join into the U.K. way of life, and I would add after the five years one can apply for citizenship but after say seven years you either become British, Australian, or a U.S. citizen or in the U.S. example you lose your Green Card status and must return to one's homeland. My best friend came into the States the same day I did, roughly 35 years ago. He's still on a Green Card, I applied for citizenship the first day I legally could and was proud as punch the day I was sworn-in (and still am). I think he's wrong. We should have a law as I suggested, in or out.

What do you think?

Cheers, Rodney:cool:

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Originally Posted by Jim R Christie

I think perhaps you should read your history.
A State Health Service was proposed by Labour at their conference in 1934.
The beginnings of the Welfare State were of course laid down by the Liberal Party when they were in government before the first war.
It's also worth remembering that the Tories voted against the formation of the NHS in parliament.
Any Tory support for the project was quite simply borne out of the shocking findings of the Beveridge Report (and a couple of other pre war investigations) which concluded that the poor state of the nations health was limiting the number of men suitably fit for military service/cannon fodder.

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Lord Dawson produced a report in 1920 on how a health service could be structured.

Rob. I agree totally with your post.

I met my best friend, that I said hasn't changed his citizenship after being here for over fifty years. He was a salesman in the hotel's Sales department in the hotel I had just been hired as the Executive chef. Two immigrant Brits had come together.

Four years later I accepted a job as executive chef in a Los Angeles hotel that brought me back to a much larger market.

After about a year, the manager needed to replace the head of the sales department. I mentioned my mate and he said he would like to meet him. The trouble was he had cancelled his phone and we'd been communicating by snail male.

I drove up over a hundred miles from L.A. to his address in Fresno, California. his wife told me he was working and seemed somewhat embarrassed giving me direction. I followed the directions and couldn't help but think how gaunt and tired-out she looked.

I came to the end of an unpaved road and a farm house with fields and fields of potatoes. I asked a women at the house were I could find my mate as I had a serious message for him. She told me to follow a path between the fields until I came to a train. "he's there." She said.

I found him. He was humping eighty lbs sacks of potatoes from a truck and then up a ramp onto a train, along with a gang of Mexicans, at trotting speed, stacking them, then running back for another. A human convey belt.

He looked like hell, he'd lost about 40-50lbs of body weight, it was over 100f if you could find the shade and I bet 130f in the train.

I asked what the @#%k he was doing. He said. "I can't stop long, I can't lose this job, the kids and wife have got to eat."

I told him I had a job offer for him, and he had to leave right away, come with me to L.A., get ponced-up the best he could and I'd loan him what ever he needed until he got on his feet. We got him fixed up with an off-the-rack suit that fitted, shirt and tie etc., he kissed his wife and kids, she wave us off and showed us her crossed fingers. He got the job, and the rest was history.

Working along side Mexicans in the field damn near killed him, no one here can work as hard or under such sh@##y conditions as they can. The U.S. would be in deep trouble if they stopped coming.

When I was a kid in London and had about two months to kill before I got married and emigrated to Canada, I had three or four part time jobs in coffee shops and a hotel as a cook, all the crappy jobs like dishwasher, pot washer, garbage clearer were done by Irish. As a kid in Chingford, at the end of the war, houses were going up and all the navies doing the dirty jobs were Irish. I don't know who's doing those jobs today in Britain, but I bet it isn't Irish or British.

Regards, Rodney:cool:

We have some good rules here in Oz regarding citizenship and other things.
If you want to vote then you must become naturalized, if you want to gain a state pension when you retire you must pay axes for a minimum of ten years.
If you want to drive you must get a local license after a maximum of six months in the country.

There have been a number of pushes to get the 'Australian' card up.
An identity card for all legal's in the country.
But it never happened and doubt it will, those so concerned with 'Human rights' say it would be open to abuse and the gov would have access to too much information about individuals.

Well fact is the gov knows every thing we do, from cradle to grave, and maybe beyond who knows.
Such cards would be great to identify those who should not be here, every country should have the right to say who stays and who get kicked out.

John my eldest son emigrated to Australia 4yrs ago and the checks he had to go through before being allowed were so thorough it was unbelievable and also cost a few grand ,if we had the same here in the UK I reckon most ot the immigrants would not get here.Big business love them to,come as it is cheap labour and work hard addmitedly as they are scared stiff of maybe having to go back to their own countries,but what pisses me of is that they get the same benefits ,that we have paid for over 50yrs.i reckon the same checks here would solve a lot of our problems

Dave, I well know what any one now has to do to get inhere legally, and that is the way it should be.

Here in Oz, and the USA as well as a few other nations we welcome with open arms any one who has a skill we need, is willing to work and contribute to the benefit of the nation.

Migrants that come here, just by being here increase the wealth of the nation.
They need to buy a house, furniture, food and clothing, pay for services all of which contributes to the nation.

Problem is in UK and others there are so many who have got in by other means and become nothing more than a drain on the wealth of the nation.
To the extent that locals home grown have to miss out.
There is only so much gov money to go around and at the front of the queue should be those who have in some way contributed to the system.

We do take in refugees, but they are screen very heavily and if found not to be what they say then out they go.

Worst part of all is the fact that many Western nations give overseas aid to these countries, what the hell do they do with it?

Basically what we all agree on in the main is that it is so easy to get into the UK so why the hell cant our governments see this.We the public should be demonstrating,trouble is that we have been tamed ,how I explain this is that domestic dogs evolved from Wolves,the same applies to the western population we just go along with it all .With regards to the Middle East they are having civil wars the same as we had ,different is we fought with bows and arrows,today powerful weapons are used and at the end of the day it is the women and children that suffer most and their leaders want power no matter what!!

Whilst the UK did take in many migrants after WW2 most found work and did well.
Much of London transport would have come to a standstill had the numbers from Jamaica and other countries not come.

That was fine until UK joined up with Europe.

The initial concept of a Common Trading Market was good, but then it went pear shaped when it morphed into what it is now.
An extremist socialistic concept where the rich will support the poor and those unwilling to contribute.

Over the years the UK has become a dumping ground for refugees, bludgers, no hopers and those who think the EU is a well of support for those for whom work is a disease.

Successive govs of both sides have not had the balls to do anything about it, the gravy train was far too good for that.
Until strict border control is upheld the situation will continue to decline.

Make December 12th count if you want a better situation.

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Originally Posted by happy daze john in oz

Dave, I well know what any one now has to do to get inhere legally, and that is the way it should be.

Here in Oz, and the USA as well as a few other nations we welcome with open arms any one who has a skill we need, is willing to work and contribute to the benefit of the nation..............


We do take in refugees, but they are screen very heavily and if found not to be what they say then out they go.

Worst part of all is the fact that many Western nations give overseas aid to these countries, what the hell do they do with it?

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John,
you should see the application form for a visa to enter India, it is very comprehensive and you will need a good memory, they even want to know your grandparents names and occupations.