Hydrogen and others

[happy daze john in oz]

The world we are told progresses in inovations with solar and wind power, electric cars we are told is the way of the future?
But is it?

One scientist recently said that the electric car is only a stop gap and that Hydrogen is the future.
I am reliably informed that California has been experimenting with Hydrogen powered cars for some time now.

A Hydrogen powered train is now operating in UK I see, very clean technology.

Hyundai have released their first Hydrogen powered car the NEXO.
Our feral government have purchased 6 at a cost of $100,000 each, only problem there is currently only one recharge point for them.
But if our gov is buying them then there is a good chance they will be the way of the future.

In the port of Flam in Norway I saw my first all electric powered boat.
It is a small ferry with a capacity of about 40 passengers.
The electric moor produces 180KW and it has a range of 40 nautical miles.

So exactly what does the future hold for transport?
Tesla has reported a large loss this year, cars not being sold as quickly as forecast, but in some instances not being delivered on time.
Electric vehicles are of little use if the infrastructure for recharge is not there and charging time can be up to 8 hours.

In London aw only one charging point, that was in Kensington and belonged to a car club.

Lot of talk but little progress it appears.

[Doc Vernon]

Yes as said a lot of talk on progress John but little really has been doneto keep these new things going like the charging Stations etc.
I think that although they most probably have role in the future its going to be a very long time before we see anything on the large scale that will be needed to replace the current Transport Systems be it Trains Cars etc.
There will be too many required to cope with Todays demands ,and for now i feel its a White Elaphant so to speak!
Cheers

[vic mcclymont]

The hydrogen fuel cell is he future of energy, no pollution, only byproduct is water, which can b purified and used for human consomption
The fuel cell deliver both heat and power, an ideal way to heat and light your home.
Vic

[robpage]

This is one of the things I find very frustrating with the whole of the green lobbyists. Hydrogen burnt in the presence of oxygen produces water ecologically wonderful. To manufacture hydrogen you use coal or natural gas in the presence of high temperature steam that production has a side effect a by-product of vast amounts of carbon dioxide and a lesser amount of carbon monoxide. So hydrogen is a clean fuel the manufacture of hydrogen is far from clean full stop the future may hold a better way of hydrogen production but currently it doesn't

[vic mcclymont]

Natural Gas is the best fuel for use in a fuel cell.
Vic

[happy daze john in oz]

The main problem is that with all the scientific knowledge out there no consensus of opinion exists.
All with their idea of what is best but very little action taking place.
Conflicting answers to the so called 'Climate crisis', what crisis I cry?

Talk of automatic cars with no driver, great provided all vehicles are like this, half and half will never work.

Until there is one defined answer the world will continue to have a mixture, and not a very good one, of all manner of ideas all with some merit but little future.

[robpage]

Climate change has been going on for 4 billion years sometimes it's got hotter sometimes colder and at the moment undoubtedly we are going through a period of global warming. The difference is this time the interference of Man has affected the globe. Burning of forests to expand on palm oil production and the increase of CO2 into the atmosphere undoubtedly made a huge difference. The problem that I have is that when you look at anything done by mankind you have to look at a whole life cycle. The green lobby look at a section of that cycle and say look how good this is. When you look at cars going to hybrid engines or batteries alone none of the figures produced ever show the cost of either mining the lithium or disposal and recycling of the battery components. When you see figures for for the whole life cycle of wind farms everyone I have seen as excluded the copper that connects the wind farm to a distribution centre and the National Grid in some cases this is hundreds of miles of copper cable. If people start massaging figures and showing you a small section of the information to my mind this is done deliberately Lee. This means that they're argument isn't a sound and for the Solutions of global warming as they pretend it to be . You then have to say to yourself how many of these people are involved in the industry. You'll find there's an awful lot of the green lobby work for so-called green Industries. Solar energy is wonderful how much does it cost to produce and then dispose of the solar panel. Until people start giving me the whole picture I remain very sceptical of the green Solutions. That doesn't mean that I don't believe that mankind interference has affected the climate. What I do believe it when people tell you apart truth and feel the need to obscure the whole truth from you you with the green lobby invariably does then it puts me in doubt of the whole of their theories. If you tell them to produce hydrogen you need to burn natural gas and you need to burn natural gas or oil to produce the high pressure steam to go into the cell where you produce the hydrogen they look at you like you've landed from another planet. My message to the green lobby is give us the whole information and let us make our own mind up .

[Captain Kong]

There is No global warming in Boltonistan.
last night I had to put my gas central heating on, wearing a woolly jersey.
It is freezing and pouring with rain. today. and it is mid summer.

[robpage]

With the National Grid you can put in electricity from nuclear coal or oil oil or from solar panels wind farms wherever you like. The greenies don't take this into consideration they assume that their cars are charged by renewable energy sources . The question that none of the never seem to be able to answer is it renewable is that good why is it so heavily subsidised

[happy daze john in oz]

Rob, you have spelled this out very well and as they say, 'hit the nail on the head'.
It came to light here last week that there is no business to deal with and recycle old solar panels.

Batteries for electric cars need ten times as much copper as conventional ones, when the battery falls to 80% efficiency it has to be replaced.
In USA they are now taking these batteries and using them as house hold ones until they fall to 40% at which point they have to be 'recycled'.

When I did chemistry at school, admittedly a few years ago and things have changed, I was told Co2 and Methane were heavier than air.
If that is so how do the move to the upper atmosphere top produce a 'greenhouse effect'?

One climatologist of some 40 years experience said in UK only a week or so ago that the current hot spell is nothing more than part of a cycle of the same, occurring according to him about every 130 years.

We were recently tole here in Oz that the cost per wind turbine, building, fitting in place and subsequent land lines is about &10 million each.

In Sweden, Finland and Singapore they burn all household rubbish to fire up their power stations.
Back in South London in the 1950's a local council was doing the same, and here in Melbourne we have one council who is extracting the methane from the local land fill to create electricity.

The 'Green's run with the hare and hunt with the hounds, what ever suits than at the time is what they will advocate.