Climate Change -Again.

[Tony Taylor]

An interesting point was raised here the other day about charging the batteries.

Fine if you have a garage, but how do you manage if the only place you can park is on the road?

Like so many other wonderful concepts govs in general get a bit carried away with what they think can be done.
Any new idea to them is another possible way to rise taxes.

Couple of hundred solar cells should do the trick, you get plenty sunshine there ha ha!

[happy daze john in oz]

Yes Tony, we have some 14 of them on our roof, but their efficiency depends on the season.
Spring and Autumn great, winter not so good as the sun is low in the sky.

But summer when the sun is really at it not so good.
When air temperature reaches 38 degrees the system shuts down to prevent damage to the panels.

So yes they do vastly reduce electricity cost but a lot depends on where you are.

I read that Germany is to reduce it's reliance on solar as it will not give base load for industry when required.

[Les Woodard]

I have six solar panels on our roof and the sheriff just loves the airconditioner on in summer so power bills are variable between $100 and $200 a quarter. There are so many variables to take in. The size of your panels and how your metering is configured. I have a three KwH system with net metering which did take a long time for the anus wipes to change it over but seems to have done the trick. So must be doing something for the environment hey. Only hope that the clown in charge at the moment gets the boot and then maybe Australia can start getting things done instead of treading water and doing stuff all for the environment and the country.

[Tony Taylor]

Yes Tony, we have some 14 of them on our roof, but their efficiency depends on the season.
Spring and Autumn great, winter not so good as the sun is low in the sky.....................................

I read that Germany is to reduce it's reliance on solar as it will not give base load for industry when required.

Snap, I have fourteen also John but dont have the same temperature problems. I can generate 4kw max on a good sunny day in summer, dull days can still cover the base load for the house, which I reckon is about 400w. Electricity bills still not particularly low though as winter sees very little generated.

[happy daze john in oz]

Snap, I have fourteen also John but dont have the same temperature problems. I can generate 4kw max on a good sunny day in summer, dull days can still cover the base load for the house, which I reckon is about 400w. Electricity bills still not particularly low though as winter sees very little generated.

Tony,are solar panels a big thing in UK, from memory the summer is not so long, but the winter can drag on.

[Rodney Mills]

I have a day off from the hospital and preparing our home for sale, so I' going to jump in to give a little opposition on this thread. It appears like a choir of "flat earthers" singing in unison. As the solitary radical "greenie" on this site, here's my take.

I'm not going to flood you with statistics as I have done in the past, just slip in a few. I'm going to try logic based on historical facts.

In reading the arguments against climate change and mans involvement it seems to me the basic logic behind it is you view the world as a static place and nowhere does it consider mankind's history of progress, and the inherent desire to go one better than the current guy.

Using the automobile vs the horse as and example:

The ending of the stage coach era began in 1890 and ended about 1915 and the auto and the auto bus took its place.

At the beginning of the twentieth century 40% of autos were powered by steam, 38% by electricity and 32% by gasoline.

In 1875 the state if Wisconsin USA offered $10,000.00 to the first to produce a practical substitute for the horse and other animals. They stipulated that the vehicle would have to sustain a speed of 5mph.

By 1897 autos could drive at 28mph. 1931 50mph. 1932 V8 Ford 60mph. 1940 70mph. Today, all family cars are capable of excess of 115mph.

Roads evolved along with autos. In 1956 an interstate highway system was built in the USA. It is possible for a family or transportation company to enter the interstate system at say Buffalo, New York and drive across the USA to San Diego, California or anywhere in the USA, non stop, except for gas, food and rest with refueling stations, at every exit, motels and restaurants at, my guess, 99% of the exits. An efficient in-state highway system can be egressed onto from the inter-state to move around efficiently in any state. Prior to this roads were little better than mud tracks.

Big deal you could say, we've got that too. Of course you do. The progress mentioned above was introduced and borrowed by all our countries. I prefaced this post by using the word mankind.

I could do the same example with the airplane, even our beloved ships, from galley ship to galleon, sail, to steam, oil, nuclear. Lighting from candle to gas mantle to electric light.

Now I look at todays electric cars, and the solar lighting system wind energy and all things that will clean up the mess the planets become in my life time. The products available today are in their infancy and you chaps that have invested in solar panels are pioneers. And without your foresight and investment, advancement to the alternativ to coal could not take place and I salute you for it. I could not install it on my roof as modifications to the exterior of my house is governed by restricted covenants set by the home owners association.

As to how are we to handle the doubling of the worlds population. How has the world historically manage from 450 million in 1500 to 7.7 billion in 2019?
By developing a variable diet not just bread and small beer and fruit and vegetables in season and pickled or smoked meat when one could afford and find it, but investing in agrarian reform, development of better preservation, storage, refrigeration, and shipping speedily from source to user.

Using corn as an example:

Yeild of corn per acre from 1875-1939 was roughly 26 bushels per acre. It rose steadily from plant improvement, fertilization and weed eradication to 165 bushels per acre in 2017. "The US Department of Agriculture expects the average yield to double in the next 25years."

I could go on and on with examples of progress in every direction even in the capability mass killings in warfare. What makes you think progress will stop in any field or direction?

There probably will always be a use for some coal, but it's day is over... "Olde King Coal" is dieing if not dead...man and progress will see to that and with mans desire to live healthier and in a clean environment. As we post or read, scientists and dreamers are working to see this come about, how many are dreaming and creating more uses to use coal as an example?

I can't believe anyone would wish to return to those wonderful days of years gone by like London was in the fifties...It's nickname was the "Smoke." Along came "killer smog", coal was banned for home use, London's buildings were cleaned and London went from crappy grey-black to white clean buildings.

Okay, I better stop, investing in coal is like investing in saddle manufacturing at the end of the nineteenth century

Rodney

[Keith at Tregenna]

Though I would not consider myself a radical "greenie",
can see how much harm is being done to the planet.

Many may not see or do anything about it until it is to late.

Keith.

[Les Woodard]

Let me assure you Rodney that you are not a solitary radical on site. if anyone wishes to go back and see how a country can stand still while the rest of the world progresses then I suggest a visit to Australia at the moment because feck all has happened here for over a decade. As for solar panels there is a myth that they only work when strong sunshine is around when they work on light not sunshine as far as I have learnt. The added advantage with them also is the fact that in summer they act as insulation on the roof making the house cooler so reducing the need for air conditioning at times simply because of that. As for climate change? Personally think that there has been lies from both camps which makes it impossible to come to an agreement on action to be taken. Is it not a fact that world has always been in flux and climate has been changing for century's so taking that into consideration plus all the crap we are throwing up is going to really expand all changes. I reckon that reducing our pollution has benefits for mankind. Australia could be one of the food bowls of the world except that short sighted greedy politicians and individuals can only see mining our resorces and stuffing up the land plus water as someone elses problem so long as they retain power and money. It looks like the up and coming generation has more back bone that ours and the one that followed ever did and I take my hat of to them for the stance that they are taking.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Rod.
The biggest problem the world has is loosening the grip greedy billionaires have on making money from the old resources like coal, clear felling forests in Asia and South America for more Palm oil, and pumping oil out of the ground, [what replaces it?] while money rules the world its a big battle. Lets hope that the kids coming up produce better politicians than we have had.
Des
PS Just had great rain in the outback, farmers in tears they may just save their winter crops.

[happy daze john in oz]

Rodders and Les, yes to a great degree you are correct in your assumptions.

But progress for the better is best when change is managed in a slow and uniform way, that is not happening just now.
There are too many jumping in with outrageous suggestions as to what is happening and how we can change it.
Here in Oz our biggest problem with all sides of politics is lack of political will.

No one side has come up with a concept that is reasonable and can be understood by all, too much pie in the sky stuff.
Talk of 50% electric vehicles by 2025 and yet no infrastructure for recharge etc, trying crossing the Nulabor in a semi all electric with recharge stations no where in sight.
Until the price of EV comes down radically sales will remain very low.
At up to four times the price of a conventinal vehicle it will be some time before we see many on the roads.

But in UK the latest from a committee making recommendations to the gov on the matter of 'climate change'. Maybe if they said what it really is, attempting to reduce pollution, many more such as myself may begin to believe them.

In UK the recommendations are,
By 2035 only renewable energy to be used, where do you put the current nuclear power stations?
Meat and dairy consumption to be cut by 20% as cattle and sheep produce Methane and Co2.
Well funny but all mammals do that.

Cattle and sheep numbers to be cut by 40%.
Thermostats in all buildings including houses and aged care facilities to be controlled at 18 degrees.

Suggested that wearing woolen jumpers would help to compensate for the lower temperature, but no.
That would require sheep to produce wool, so man made fiber, which requires industrial concepts to manufacture should be used.

When the public hear this sort of rhetoric there is little wonder they laugh.

Coal may be old world but there are some processes such as making steel that still need it.

There is a very strong commitment by some of the motor manufacturing companies that Electric is only a stand in until the Hydrogen car is fully developed.

Les, as to solar it is the Ultra violet that generates the power.