Still relevant today ???

[happy daze john in oz]

I realise this posting may raise a few eyebrows and may upset a few. Sorry about that but I am posting my comments on the matter, they may however not be those of every member. We all have the right to free speech and freedom of expression.

Today here in Oz Caltex announced it would be closing a major refinery with the loss of about 200 jobs. It will now become a storage facilty for imported refined fuel. The refinery is old and too small to cope with current demand.
Likewise we are loosing jobs in the manufacturing areas such as automotive, and engineer positions in the aircraft industry.
There are many reasons for this, in the automotive there are now equal quality cars coming from Korea, China etc. Modern aircraft engines do not require the same level of maintainance as those of years past.

As a result of the Caltex issue one union has declared it will no longer supply Woolworths with fuel. Here in Oz the Caltex station are all owned by Woolworths.

My question is this, have the union sover time shot themselves in the foot?

Here for years union membership was almost compulsory. I have been a member of not only NSU, but Hospitality Union, when I first arived here it was almost impossible to get a job unless you were a member. Tertiary Education Union for a similar reason.
Over years the unions have fought for improved wages and conditions and I have no problem with any one getting a better deal if they work for it. But now we have a situation where wages are so high many companies are going overseas to get the job done. For every dollar the employee earns the employer has to find a further 30 cents in on costs.
But the union bosses continue to push the members to take action, strike or otherwise to get what they want. The eventual result, the top union man keeps his job and often goes on to become a politician, whilst in the long run the worker sees his position made redundant.
Have we now reached the position where the unions have outlived their usefulness?

As an aside, in 1964 trade union membership was about 85%, by 1980 it was down to 65%. At the last count it now stands at about 17%.

[John Arton]

John
Quite possibly you are correct. Never was a great fan of Unions as NUMAST did nothing for us in C.P. when they put us on offshore contracts.
It does seem that Union bosses have become a bit self serving similar to most politicians, yet there are certain cases and industries where the average worker does need the weight of a GOOD union behind them as there are still enough unscrupulous bosses around who would screw you left right and centre if not kept in check, either by legislation or a good union.
As I see it Unions are on balance a good thing but the heads of the Unions need to get real, keep their noses out of the trough and put their members interests first. One thing the dreaded Maggie did was to make the Unions hold ballots before calling for strike action which has certainly led to a reduction in "wild cat" strikes here in the U.K. where strikes were called just because there was no hot water in the panny oven.So for that alone we should be grateful to her., he says ducking the incoming!!!!
Like Politicians in these days, Union bosses need to come into the real world,
my thoughts only and I'm going back under the stairs now.
rgds
JA

[Captain Kong]

I agree John, The NUS, THE MNAOA, now NUMAST and now something else, never did anything when I had a need for them.
I got no legal advice when I had to attend the Inquest and Court of Inquiry over the Pool Fisher sinking. Your on your own , they told me, Shouldnt have got involved, I was told.
I conducted my own case. successfully without them,
I had an overpayment from my shipowners Pension over several years then they hit me with a bill for several thousand Pounds, they wanted the money back, I asked the NUMAST for legal advice, `Nothing to do with us,` they said. I negotiated it my self and had it reduced by 50%.
So the question is, do we need a Union that does nothing but take the subs off us while they enjoy the good life, Union subsidised Houses, Cars , expences, and many other perks at the members expence.?
I think Unions have run their course.
Brian,.

[alf corbyn]

now brian, you cannot do away with the unions. where else would politicans get thier training.

mr strange. just a quickie. is your woolworths the same as the one that went belly up over in the uk?.

[Richard Quartermaine]

After three British ships I wondered what it would be like on Aussie ships. it was 1948. I found out that I had to go down to the union office, join the union and then go and sit on a bench until I was called into the Union Secretaries office and then I would be asked to show my union book at which time the stamps were checked and anything due or nearly due would be payed and my book stamped. My first time I was lucky for there was a ship in Brisbane sailing the next day that was short of crew so with the few lads in the union "waiting room" in Sydney we got sent up to Brisbane.

The next time I went to get a ship I was sitting out in waiting room wondering why I was not being selected. I was soon put wise - a pound note in the union book. I only had a ten shilling note so I got about the oldest ship out of Sydney. But she was a great little ship on a good run - Sydney, Lord Howe Island, Norfolk Island, The British/French condominium of The New Hebrides (now Vuanatu) and back the same way.

It wasn't a good start with the union movement. I got back on the British ships the following year where I found hiring to be on the level.

Richard Q

[happy daze john in oz]

No Alf, our Woolworths you would know as Safeway the supermarket chain.

[Les Woodard]

Think that union leaders and politicians of all unions and party's have forgotten the basic element of who they where intitially there to serve. I know near the end of my working life I was always in strife with the union because they where not taking directions from the people that where paying their wages. Think I might have become a tad unpopular over it as well. But at least I know I did not end up like a mindless cretin that followed blindly even if we did get screwed in the end. Maybe that is also why they gave me a generous golden handshake in the end. Always liked that bloke in the mirror of a morning thou unlike some who sold out.

[Captain Kong]

My younger brother was in the Australian Seamans Union in the 60s, he waited for months to get a ship, he was broke, so he found a job on the Wongala, a sailing ship powder boat. After six months he went into the Union Office and they told him he was blacked, and never get another ship again, even tho` he had paid his union dues.
The Wongala was a non union ship.

[j.sabourn]

Ref. John in Oz"s post on Unions. I was a member of the Maritime Union in Australia. You had to be a member to get employment on Australian ships. I have always agreed with the principle of Unions but not always their actions. The unions here were a closed shop. On applying to join the Guild here in Oz. I was told they did not need any more members, I said I was not there for a job but to join the Union. They were literally an agency for supplying the shipowner with crew. I argued the point and after handing over a sizeable amount of money for membership was accepted, and was never out of work for the rest of my working life. The wages and conditions were far in excess of British conditions, however to achieve this I suppose they carried less crew than a British ship of the same type. Some of the actions of the membership would never have been tolerated elsewhere under different flags. However saying that, as a seafarer I was thankful for the conditions that I had after being effed around by some shipowners, including British ones, during my working life. There is a good side and a bad side to Unions, the bad side I would say are the militant membership who you usually find are the leeches on our society. I do not agree with past Union Officials being members of a Government as believe they have no right to make sometimes extreme laws to some of their left wing benefits. Regards John Sabourn

[Neil Morton]

Apart from the compulsory joining of the British Seaman's Union in 1955 I have never belonged to a union here in Oz and have never been asked. I guess that is because I have mainly worked on a commission only basis which can be construed as self employed.
Back in the late sixties I had a yen to get on the Aussie coast with a mate of mine who was a chief cook at the time. He told me to put a $20 bill in my old discharge book and ex union book and took me to the union HQ at the lower end of Collins St here in Melb. The official did not even open either one he just pushed them back across the counter and said "On yer bike mate we have our own blokes waiting for a berth."
So I scarpered no use flogging a dead horse.